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Old 04-24-2018, 05:34 PM   #181
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Re: Some WWII Fighters in 1/72

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Originally Posted by N3424V View Post
Michael,

Once again you've posted a good description and model of an obscure bird. Being more interested in US Navy aircraft from the time and less interested in USAAF birds, I didn't realize that the fuselage on these aircraft were so flat.

Thanks for posting an interesting piece.
You´re welcome. More to come
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Old 05-08-2018, 03:25 PM   #182
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Re: Some WWII Fighters in 1/72

The oldest surviving jet aircraft in the world is the Gloster E28/39 of the Royal Air Force. It first flew on May 15th, 1941 and is now displayed in the Science Museum in London. Although the Caproni Campini N.1 (presented earlier in this thread) displayed in Rome is almost one year older, it is technically not a pure jet aircraft, but a hybrid called a “motorjet”.

Research in turbojet propulsion was already done in the 1920s, but no practical use could be achieved then. The jet engine as we know it today has two fathers: Frank Whittle, a Royal Air Force engineer, and Hans von Ohain, a German Physicist. Both researched this new technology independently in the 1930s; and both had in common that their respective governments were indifferent at first about this new, exotic form of propulsion. Whittle founded his own company, Power Jets Ltd, to promote his idea and to attract interested partners in the British aviation industry. Lack of funding and government support did cost him a few years of development and in the end the technological edge against the Germans. Von Ohain was hired by Aircraft manufacturer Ernst Heinkel who always had an interest in high-speed planes. Frank Whittle is credited to have build the first operational turbine engine in the world, while Von Ohain designed the first airworthy jet engine, that powered the Heinkel He 178 on it´s first flight dated August 27th, 1939 – over 1 ½ years before the maiden flight of the Gloster E28/39. This event, of course, was unknown for the British or the rest of the world – jet engine research & aircraft development was top secret at the time and almost all information about it emerged only after the war, when Whittle & Von Ohain met each other and became good friends for the rest of their lives.

Whittle´s first airworthy jet engine, the Power Jets W.1, was ready in 1940 and the Gloster Aircraft Company was selected to build a proof-of-concept aircraft, the E28/39 (sometimes also called the Gloster “Pioneer” or Gloster “Whittle”). Two experimental aircraft, Serial numbers W4041 and W4046 were build. It was a simple but functional design and test pilot Gerry Sayer took it into the air on May 15th, 1941, the first flight of a British jet plane. The second jet, W4046, did not have a long career and was lost due to aileron failure in flight; the pilot was able to bail out. During 1943, the remaining E28/39 was handed to the Royal Aircraft Establishment (a government-owned research instute) based at Farnborough airfield, where it received a new camouflage scheme and a few aerodynamic modifications. Primarly used as an engine testbed, the “Pioneer” was finally retired in February 1945, after about 120 flights, and returned to Gloster, where the aircraft was refurbished and given to the Science Museum London in 1946 where it remains ever since. The E28/39 paved the way for the Gloster Meteor, the first operational jet fighter of the RAF.

The E28/39 W4041 is seen here as it appeared during 1941/42. It wears a Dark Earth/Dark Green camouflage with yellow undersides typical for RAF prototype and trainer aircraft of the era. Of interest is the marking “P” for prototype and the serial number W4041/G. The “/G” means that this aircraft had to be observed by at least one armed guard at all times when it was on the ground. It was all about secrecy then – and the very existence of this aircraft was acknowlegded by the government only in 1944 – three years after the first flight !

This kit from Russian maker Ark Models is the old Frog Models tooling, now over 50 years old. Therefore it is a basic as it can get, but this is typical for kits this old. What is annoying though that it is horribly inaccurate in terms of dimensions. This tooling is based on old incorrect Gloster drawings. The fuselage looks a bit bloated, and it really is ! Apparently the fuselage dimensions of the kit are more like 1:63 scale, while the wings are correct 1:72 scale. Of course nothing can be really done to correct this. The only alternative is a long-gone Czech short run kit or a very expensive and tricky short run kit from Australia – no thanks, not for me this time. The Ark/Frog model is accompanied by a few Airfix RAF figures and a diecast Bedford Tanker from Hobbymaster.









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Old 05-08-2018, 04:43 PM   #183
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Re: Some WWII Fighters in 1/72

I have a weird problem here, I only see the latest two posts in this thread in the mobile version of this webpage, and not in the web version. I tried Firefox and Chrome. Anybody else has this too ? Update: fixed somehow...
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Old 05-09-2018, 02:51 PM   #184
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Re: Some WWII Fighters in 1/72

Michael,

Nice camo paint job. That yellow underside probably wasn't much fun.

Thanks again for posting an interesting bird and its history.
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Old 05-09-2018, 05:06 PM   #185
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Re: Some WWII Fighters in 1/72

Great job with this jet dear friend.
I did not know England was developing and developed jet airplanes. Why they did not use it during WWII?
The Mig-15 entered in service in 1949 and i would not be surprised if the Soviets copied the Gloster E28/39 project (except for the wings and the tail).
Luftwaffe too late started to use the beautiful and powerful Me262 because of Hitler's lack of foresight, even if the first flight took place in 1942 and Germans were developing jet engines since 1936.
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Old 05-09-2018, 07:07 PM   #186
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Re: Some WWII Fighters in 1/72

The MiG-15 did in fact use a copy of the Rolls-Royce Nene engine, not the type that powered the Gloster. The overall design however is based more on the Focke-Wulf Ta-183, much like the F-86 and SAAB 29.

As to why the British didn't use jets during the war, I think Conventi described it pretty well. Neither the RAF nor the government thought jets were worth supporting at the time.
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Old 05-10-2018, 12:15 PM   #187
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Re: Some WWII Fighters in 1/72

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As to why the British didn't use jets during the war, I think Conventi described it pretty well. Neither the RAF nor the government thought jets were worth supporting at the time.
Thanks guys for your interest. The British had one operational jet fighter in WWII, the Gloster Meteor, although only in relatively limited service. It was first used over the UK, chasing and shooting down V1 flying bombs. Later some were stationed in Belgium, where they received this white paint scheme (as their own flak gunners always confused them with the Messerschmitt Me 262).

The Meteor was never involved in any aerial fighting in WWII, nor did it ever encounter a German jet. Ground attack missions were primarly conducted. Secrecy was all important, and the main concern was not to lose a plane to the Germans - pilots were forbidden to fly over Germany or German-occupied country.

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Old 05-10-2018, 12:21 PM   #188
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Re: Some WWII Fighters in 1/72

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Great job with this jet dear friend.
I did not know England was developing and developed jet airplanes. Why they did not use it during WWII?
The Mig-15 entered in service in 1949 and i would not be surprised if the Soviets copied the Gloster E28/39 project (except for the wings and the tail).
Luftwaffe too late started to use the beautiful and powerful Me262 because of Hitler's lack of foresight, even if the first flight took place in 1942 and Germans were developing jet engines since 1936.
The Soviets had a cancelled jet project, the Sukhoi Su-9 (Samolyet K) that looked like a Me 262 copy:



Would like to build it, but there is only a Russian Resin kit of it, around 60 Euros
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Old 05-10-2018, 01:00 PM   #189
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Re: Some WWII Fighters in 1/72

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Ground attack missions were primarly conducted. Secrecy was all important, and the main concern was not to lose a plane to the Germans - pilots were forbidden to fly over Germany or German-occupied country.
Hang on, how can you perform ground attacks if you're not allowed to fly over enemy territory?
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Old 05-10-2018, 02:50 PM   #190
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Re: Some WWII Fighters in 1/72

Typhoons and Tempests were also used to unstable the V1,using their wing to knock it off balance but more importantly if Germany hadn't tried experimenting with different designs and stayed with the tried and tested aircraft they had along with their Panzers they'd have given the allies a good run for their money...The Allies stuck with the tried and tested aircraft/AFVs etc Germany went for technology...
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Old 05-10-2018, 06:47 PM   #191
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Re: Some WWII Fighters in 1/72

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Hang on, how can you perform ground attacks if you're not allowed to fly over enemy territory?
As far as I know, these were fighter/bomber combat patrols in areas already under control by the Allies or in areas close nearby.
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Old 05-13-2018, 06:01 PM   #192
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Re: Some WWII Fighters in 1/72

Michael, do you think that if the Me262 entered in war in 1943 something was different now?
I did not know about the Sukhoi Su-9, very similar to the Me262.
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Old 05-13-2018, 06:38 PM   #193
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Re: Some WWII Fighters in 1/72

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Michael, do you think that if the Me262 entered in war in 1943 something was different now?
I did not know about the Sukhoi Su-9, very similar to the Me262.
I don´t think so. In the end it was all about quantity. Germany could never produce as much aircraft as the United States, and had limited resources regarding important raw materials, like special alloys required for jet engines. Of course it got worse later in the war.

I read mission reviews of the two operational jet fighter squadrons equipped with Me 262, JG7 and JV44 (The "Experten" squadron). They seldom had more that 10-15 operational jets at hand. A typical mission would be like, 10 Me 262 against roughly 400-500 bombers and 300-400 escort fighters. That no exaggeration, but a relatively modest number. Even with conventional fighters (Bf 109, Fw 190 etc) the Luftwaffe would be outnumbered 10:1, typically.
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Old 06-06-2018, 06:34 PM   #194
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Re: Some WWII Fighters in 1/72

Hi Guys,

I started a new thread here:

https://www.wings900.com/vb/model-ki...-part-2-a.html

Images in this thread cannot be displayed anymore because the forum software changed to https protocol. The pictures are on my own server and it does not support https. New pictures are now uploaded to a picture hoster.
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