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Old 05-16-2016, 04:38 PM   #121
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Re: Should the UK stay in the EU?

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Originally Posted by vince1159 View Post
I know the sue culture is from the states but i think the main problem is the human rights laws from the eu which ties everyones hands behind their backs whilst the person in the wrong can get away with almost anything (get rid of the eu means you can get your own laws back),as for the A+E problem it's exactly the same over here again peoples hands tied with uneeded red tape,forget one copy of something we need five,get rid of uneeded civil servants and people in charge that aren't capable of doing the job they were promoted to,you lower the wage bill which means more money to invest back into the system...
The HR laws need amending, I totally agree with you on that Vince. A recent example was Breivik winning his case against the Norwegian government.

That being said, that alone in my mind is not a reason to leave the EU. If we leave, passports will have to be reissued, reams of official documents re-issued, new laws drafted to replace those lost when we leave the union etc...which will cost millions if not billions of pounds.

The un-needed and top-heavy management is another purely UK problem; it simply doesn't exist in Europe.
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Old 05-16-2016, 04:48 PM   #122
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Re: Should the UK stay in the EU?

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Originally Posted by Albert View Post
Leave! Ask yourself? Why is the NHS struggling - answer, uncontrolled immigration! Why are the police struggling to control crime. Answer, too many immigrants. How many more laws and rules have to be enforced on us by the EU, before we say enough is enough? We joined the Common Market for free trade, but not to be 'ruled' by the EU that has got out of control. The scaremongering that's going on from the Government is unbelieveable. Do you really believe jobs would be lost and that European companies would stop trading with us? They still need us! There will be MORE jobs as we will stop the immigrants coming into the country and taking them!
I couldn't agree more, look at Switzerland, they're doing better than most EU countries.
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Old 05-16-2016, 05:04 PM   #123
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Re: Should the UK stay in the EU?

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You are totally out of touch with reality. A major American owned automotive parts supplier who employ 1500 people here, and another 300 in other parts of the UK, told its employees 2 years ago if Britain leaves, the whole lot will go to Warsaw. My better half is actually part of the team planning that very migration in the event of a Brexit. They don't want to go, they have staff and expertise here but they cannot afford to be outside of their key markets, the German, Polish, Slovakian factories, as well as the French, Spanish and Italian. The UK market, outside of the EU is not worth the effort to stay, and its no longer financially viable.

That is something that more and more international companies will face. You also fail to grasp that Norway and Switzerland, both non-EU members are forced to trade with the EU on the EU's terms, including freedom of movement. The EU can afford to say, we as 27 want it our way, not your way. They had and have no say in how it runs and the rules it applies. Neither would we if we left, but we'd still have to put up with rules and regulations we'd have no voice in changing. It is time for this country to stand and stay, fight for its rights IN THE EU, not run cowardly to the exit in the hope of your imaginary world.
Oh, they're sending jobs to EU countries like Poland, Bulgaria whether the UK stay in the EU or not.
It's about cheap labor and the EU made it easier.

Van Hool, Mercedes, VW etc. Already have plants in Poland, the Czech Republic for that reason.


Jaguar Land Rover eyes plant in Slovakia to drive global expansion - Telegraph
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Old 05-16-2016, 06:30 PM   #124
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Re: Should the UK stay in the EU?

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Originally Posted by bskc8th View Post
If we leave, passports will have to be reissued, reams of official documents re-issued, new laws drafted to replace those lost when we leave the union etc...
Perhaps we can have our proper light bulbs back. Brussels can shove these 3W glow worms up their arse.
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Old 05-16-2016, 07:31 PM   #125
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Re: Should the UK stay in the EU?

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Leave! Ask yourself? Why is the NHS struggling - answer, uncontrolled immigration! Why are the police struggling to control crime. Answer, too many immigrants. How many more laws and rules have to be enforced on us by the EU, before we say enough is enough? We joined the Common Market for free trade, but not to be 'ruled' by the EU that has got out of control. The scaremongering that's going on from the Government is unbelieveable. Do you really believe jobs would be lost and that European companies would stop trading with us? They still need us! There will be MORE jobs as we will stop the immigrants coming into the country and taking them!
You are deluded if you genuinely do believe this is the case. If you read more than any one news source it would be clear that the government is the major factor to the failing of the NHS.

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Another threat on top of Obama's thinly veiled one in his 'back of the queue' speech...
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What gives any foreign company the right to threaten the uk with moving to europe if they leave the eu,this is what i don't get,the uk's got leave or stay but have you heard threats from banks/finance etc (although some have probably done a bit of sabre rattleing) but it's mostly places that use the uk as a way into europe when they could have easily gone there in the first place..It might even work in reverse with companies in the eu wanting to get away from all the bureaucracy..
Money. There's no reason for a foreign company to carry on operations in the UK when it could easily do the same in any other EU country for cheaper because it has access to the single market, they owe the country nothing so there's no reason they should stay. I don't know what some people struggle to grasp about this concept but I see it being played off as scaremongering far too much, the UK is only in the position it's in currently due to the EU, otherwise we'd be like any other country on the outside.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anglojet View Post
Perhaps we can have our proper light bulbs back. Brussels can shove these 3W glow worms up their arse.
Ah yes, because conserving energy is a bad thing. We should be celebrating the advancements we've had in terms of energy rather than bash on them. Last week the UK ran no coal in any power station for the first time in over 100 years, it's the achievements like this which we should celebrate, alongside the cutting down on unnecessarily high powered appliances. It's a very regressive stance when bashing this sort of thing.
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Old 05-17-2016, 06:06 AM   #126
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Re: Should the UK stay in the EU?

Just got this through the door.


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Old 05-17-2016, 08:02 AM   #127
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Re: Should the UK stay in the EU?

What does it for me with that image is how remain page cites it's sources and Vote Leave doesn't. Pretty indicative of the whole thing really.

Where is this £350m per week value from? Do we only pay mon - fri at £55m per day which is thrown around, or have they revised it to a less inflated value? We pay £18m per day which equates to a lot less than that.
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Old 05-17-2016, 08:34 AM   #128
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Re: Should the UK stay in the EU?

When Turkey join that'll be the end of Europe as we know it.
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Old 05-17-2016, 06:43 PM   #129
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Re: Should the UK stay in the EU?

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Originally Posted by MYT DC-10 View Post
You are deluded if you genuinely do believe this is the case. If you read more than any one news source it would be clear that the government is the major factor to the failing of the NHS.
No Government can keep feeding this bottomless pit with more and more people coming into the country and putting pressure on our NHS. If this continues, there will be no choice but to privatize healthcare in the UK and everyone take out health insurance as in the US.
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Old 05-18-2016, 04:27 AM   #130
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Re: Should the UK stay in the EU?

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Originally Posted by MYT DC-10 View Post
Money. There's no reason for a foreign company to carry on operations in the UK when it could easily do the same in any other EU country for cheaper because it has access to the single market, they owe the country nothing so there's no reason they should stay. I don't know what some people struggle to grasp about this concept but I see it being played off as scaremongering far too much, the UK is only in the position it's in currently due to the EU, otherwise we'd be like any other country on the outside.
Of course it's money,same as everything else,just begs the question why didn't they go there in the first place even if you're in the eu because the referendom stuff has been going on for yrs...I can't really get what you mean by scaremongering it sounds more like facts to me,you leave the eu,they leave the uk but as i've already said do you think it would tempt more companies to the uk from the eu to get rid of a lot of the pointless red tape/big brother syndrome...
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Old 05-18-2016, 05:01 AM   #131
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Re: Should the UK stay in the EU?

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No Government can keep feeding this bottomless pit with more and more people coming into the country and putting pressure on our NHS. If this continues, there will be no choice but to privatize healthcare in the UK and everyone take out health insurance as in the US.
True Albert, the strain on the NHS is unprecedented but that's largely down to the increasingly top-heavy population demographic. People are living longer and taking more out the system as pensioners than the working generation can provide for and it's been heading that way for years. It's not a problem that's caused by EU migrants, the vast majority of whom work and contribute to their healthcare costs. There are 7.5 million foreign-born residents in the UK, of whom only 2.2 million were from other EU member states. Only 646,000 of these were Polish, the most-maligned 'offenders'. The second and third largest European groups were Irish and German. Lithuanians and Latvians (another hard-done-by group) made up only another 200,000. 1.1 million are Pakistani or Indian, and bring with them cultural differences that cause much greater stress and strain than fellow Europeans who to a large extent share our values and cultural identity. I mean this with no disrespect to these diasporas, but building a Mosque is far more likely to cause angst and controversy in the UK than building a Church would. They also tend to bring extended family, often old and unable to work who place strain on the NHS whereas European workers 'feed' money back to their older family members at home; which let us not forget is part of the common market that we currently enjoy!


Can I just add how nice it is to be part of a (so-far) constructive and civilised debate on W900. It's been lacking in some arguments recently on other topics but I'm so glad this topic has remained largely civil and separate from our shared passion for aviation!

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Old 05-18-2016, 09:10 AM   #132
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Re: Should the UK stay in the EU?

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Originally Posted by bskc8th View Post
True Albert, the strain on the NHS is unprecedented but that's largely down to the increasingly top-heavy population demographic. People are living longer and taking more out the system as pensioners than the working generation can provide for and it's been heading that way for years. It's not a problem that's caused by EU migrants, the vast majority of whom work and contribute to their healthcare costs. There are 7.5 million foreign-born residents in the UK, of whom only 2.2 million were from other EU member states. Only 646,000 of these were Polish, the most-maligned 'offenders'. The second and third largest European groups were Irish and German. Lithuanians and Latvians (another hard-done-by group) made up only another 200,000. 1.1 million are Pakistani or Indian, and bring with them cultural differences that cause much greater stress and strain than fellow Europeans who to a large extent share our values and cultural identity. I mean this with no disrespect to these diasporas, but building a Mosque is far more likely to cause angst and controversy in the UK than building a Church would. They also tend to bring extended family, often old and unable to work who place strain on the NHS whereas European workers 'feed' money back to their older family members at home; which let us not forget is part of the common market that we currently enjoy!


Can I just add how nice it is to be part of a (so-far) constructive and civilised debate on W900. It's been lacking in some arguments recently on other topics but I'm so glad this topic has remained largely civil and separate from our shared passion for aviation!
You realize the system is not solvent as is, right?
So why keep adding people into a system that's already streesed and you can't pay for it?

That's the problem with socialists, they like to give everybody free stuff with money they don't have.

Don't get me wrong it's very noble if you have the means and can help people but foolish if you have a budget deficit. Keep printing Euros isn't going to solve the problem long term.
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Old 05-18-2016, 12:22 PM   #133
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Re: Should the UK stay in the EU?

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When Turkey join that'll be the end of Europe as we know it.
Interested to know how...
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Old 05-18-2016, 12:48 PM   #134
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Re: Should the UK stay in the EU?

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You realize the system is not solvent as is, right?
So why keep adding people into a system that's already streesed and you can't pay for it?

That's the problem with socialists, they like to give everybody free stuff with money they don't have.

Don't get me wrong it's very noble if you have the means and can help people but foolish if you have a budget deficit. Keep printing Euros isn't going to solve the problem long term.
Im certainly not a socialist - although I understand US and European definitions of socialists can differ somewhat!

The NHS could still work without such huge budgetary problems if it were run better and allowed to function without constant managerial interference. The £350 million figure that it is claimed we spend on EU membership is a misnomer and misleading figure that doesn't take into account rebates and investment by the EU in British infrastructure. Printing Euros is pretty irrelevant to the debate on this topic as Britain decided some time ago we were going to remain outside the Eurozone (an intelligent and wise decision I hasten to add, even as a supporter of the 'Remain' campaign).
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Old 05-18-2016, 12:49 PM   #135
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Re: Should the UK stay in the EU?

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Interested to know how...
It'll just become extension of the Middle East known as Eurabia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurabia
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