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Stay in the EU 32 48.48%
Leave the EU 24 36.36%
Either decision is fine with me 10 15.15%
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Old 05-14-2016, 06:10 PM   #106
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Re: Should the UK stay in the EU?

One of the people who you should trust on the matter, the BOE Governor warns of the repercussions and possible recessions caused by leaving.

It's sad to see that people think the BOE is actually a bank along the lines of HSBC etc. But hey, what can you do.

Carney Warns Brexit Risks Causing Recession - Bloomberg
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Old 05-16-2016, 11:27 AM   #107
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Re: Should the UK stay in the EU?

Leave! Ask yourself? Why is the NHS struggling - answer, uncontrolled immigration! Why are the police struggling to control crime. Answer, too many immigrants. How many more laws and rules have to be enforced on us by the EU, before we say enough is enough? We joined the Common Market for free trade, but not to be 'ruled' by the EU that has got out of control. The scaremongering that's going on from the Government is unbelieveable. Do you really believe jobs would be lost and that European companies would stop trading with us? They still need us! There will be MORE jobs as we will stop the immigrants coming into the country and taking them!
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Old 05-16-2016, 01:14 PM   #108
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Re: Should the UK stay in the EU?

Immigration is NOT the reason the NHS is struggling. Lack of money, ridiculous government meddling and the failure to sustain and maintain a policy for more than five minutes is the reason. Beds are filled with older people who cannot go home because the government has cut payments to local authorities to provide care for the elderly at home. The EU is not and never has been the reason the NHS is struggling. Only Fascist Farage and Boris the Buffoon come up with those nonsensical arguments.

The EU has its problems but is ludicrous to blame a a handful of immigrants for causing the problems in the NHS. Doctors not on call, no surgery times, failure to keep waiting lists targets and scraping them, force more and more to go to casualty because doctors will not call at home in an emergency: the BRITISH Government has screwed the NHS, not the EU.
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Old 05-16-2016, 01:24 PM   #109
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Re: Should the UK stay in the EU?

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Do you really believe jobs would be lost and that European companies would stop trading with us? They still need us! There will be MORE jobs as we will stop the immigrants coming into the country and taking them!
You are totally out of touch with reality. A major American owned automotive parts supplier who employ 1500 people here, and another 300 in other parts of the UK, told its employees 2 years ago if Britain leaves, the whole lot will go to Warsaw. My better half is actually part of the team planning that very migration in the event of a Brexit. They don't want to go, they have staff and expertise here but they cannot afford to be outside of their key markets, the German, Polish, Slovakian factories, as well as the French, Spanish and Italian. The UK market, outside of the EU is not worth the effort to stay, and its no longer financially viable.

That is something that more and more international companies will face. You also fail to grasp that Norway and Switzerland, both non-EU members are forced to trade with the EU on the EU's terms, including freedom of movement. The EU can afford to say, we as 27 want it our way, not your way. They had and have no say in how it runs and the rules it applies. Neither would we if we left, but we'd still have to put up with rules and regulations we'd have no voice in changing. It is time for this country to stand and stay, fight for its rights IN THE EU, not run cowardly to the exit in the hope of your imaginary world.
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Old 05-16-2016, 01:28 PM   #110
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Re: Should the UK stay in the EU?

I have to agree with Jetboy on the issue of the NHS; I work in an NHS hospital trust for the dietetics and nutrition department and immigrants make up an insignificant number of our patients. The reason we struggle is that there are so many overweight British adults, diabetic children who are given disgustingly unhealthy diets by their parents and patients who simply do not turn up for appointments.

For example today a clinician had 8 appointments booked and yet only 3 patients actually bothered to turn up. Out of 4 hours of patient contact time, only 1.5 hours was actually spent with patients who had attended. And I must add, they were all English patients (those who attended and otherwise)!

We can't get enough staff to fill vacancies and currently have 2 - yes 2 - members of staff covering a waiting list of around 300 patients. There are simply too many people unwilling to do anything to alter their lifestyles to take care of themselves, they expect the NHS to fix it magically for them.

As an additional point, immigrants are not automatically going to get free healthcare even if they are from an EU country. It's something the NHS is trying to crack down on and many of them are charged for using British healthcare.

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Old 05-16-2016, 01:37 PM   #111
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Re: Should the UK stay in the EU?

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They still need us! There will be MORE jobs as we will stop the immigrants coming into the country and taking them!
Unfortunately Albert I don't think Europe does need us. We have no industry to trade with and once out of the EU our service sector (IT, construction etc) will be easily undercut by EU firms.

I can't agree on the jobs situation either I'm afraid - it is true there are large numbers of EU migrants here and there are rotten apples who work the system without giving anything back, just as there are British folk who do the same. I even say this despite having missed out on a job several years ago because there was a - and I quote(!) - 'Pole willing to work for less'.
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Old 05-16-2016, 01:37 PM   #112
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Re: Should the UK stay in the EU?

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Originally Posted by bskc8th View Post
I have to agree with Jetboy on the issue of the NHS; I work in an NHS hospital trust for the dietetics and nutrition department and immigrants make up an insignifcant number of our patients. The reason we struggle is that there are so many overweight British adults, diabetic children who are given disgustingly unhealthy diets by their parents and patients who simply do not turn up for appointments.

For example today a clinician had 8 appointments booked and yet only 3 patients actually bothered to turn up. Out of 4 hours of patient contact time, only 1.5 hours was actually spent with patients who had attended. And I must add, they were all English patients (those who attended and otherwise)!

We can't get enough staff to fill vacancies and currently have 2 - yes 2 - members of staff covering a waiting list of around 300 patients. There are simply too many people unwilling to do anything to alter their lifestyles to take care of themselves, they expect the NHS to fix it magically for them.

As an additional point, immigrants are not automatically going to get free healthcare even if they are from an EU country. It's something the NHS is trying to crack down on and many of them are charged for using British healthcare.
you can even take it further....your whole economy and also NHS would break apart....as you employ loads of "economical immigrants" from EU countries from the east, like Poland, Lithuania etc.

Same here....what do you think would happen if they gotta leave....a brit (or a german or a French) would not do that Job for the few bucks....so ask yourself twice before listening to these simple Slogans. Nothing is easy, and if it is too easy, it has a trap....
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Old 05-16-2016, 01:45 PM   #113
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Re: Should the UK stay in the EU?

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you can even take it further....your whole economy and also NHS would break apart....as you employ loads of "economical immigrants" from EU countries from the east, like Poland, Lithuania etc.

Same here....what do you think would happen if they gotta leave....a brit (or a german or a French) would not do that Job for the few bucks....so ask yourself twice before listening to these simple Slogans. Nothing is easy, and if it is too easy, it has a trap....
I don't think the NHS would necessarily break apart Speedbird, but I agree it would struggle to maintain the level of service currently provided (which is far from ideal in some situations anyway!).

Like anything it can't be a clear-cut decision. It's funny because the 'Leave' campaign keep accusing the 'Stay' camp of scaremongering but it depends what side if the fence you're on. To me, as a 'Stay' voter, the scaremongering seems to be coming from the 'Leave' campaign predicting the rise of the 4th Reich if we stay in the EU! Boris Johnson compared the EU to Hitler last week which was tasteless in my opinion.
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Old 05-16-2016, 01:52 PM   #114
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Re: Should the UK stay in the EU?

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I don't think the NHS would necessarily break apart Speedbird, but I agree it would struggle to maintain the level of service currently provided (which is far from ideal in some situations anyway!).

Like anything it can't be a clear-cut decision. It's funny because the 'Leave' campaign keep accusing the 'Stay' camp of scaremongering but it depends what side if the fence you're on. To me, as a 'Stay' voter, the scaremongering seems to be coming from the 'Leave' campaign predicting the rise of the 4th Reich if we stay in the EU! Boris Johnson compared the EU to Hitler last week which was tasteless in my opinion.
agree...what I meant to say was that the "rich" countries wouldnt be able to Keep going on like this if we wouldnt have all the "cheap" People from eastern EU countries. Always good for right wing Slogans like British/German Jobs for Brits and Germans...but hey...most of the Jobs None of our fellow Countrymen would like to do. THAT of course no one would say....

Well, Johnson....what can you say. I always thought he is a lunatic and now he has proven he is a tasteless lunatic. Becomes more a Mini Trump...well, the hair cut seems already similar.
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Old 05-16-2016, 02:17 PM   #115
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Re: Should the UK stay in the EU?

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As an additional point, immigrants are not automatically going to get free healthcare even if they are from an EU country. It's something the NHS is trying to crack down on and many of them are charged for using British healthcare.
What happens when refused,they claim HR and go to the european court of....
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Old 05-16-2016, 02:28 PM   #116
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Re: Should the UK stay in the EU?

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You are totally out of touch with reality. A major American owned automotive parts supplier who employ 1500 people here, and another 300 in other parts of the UK, told its employees 2 years ago if Britain leaves, the whole lot will go to Warsaw.
Another threat on top of Obama's thinly veiled one in his 'back of the queue' speech...
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Old 05-16-2016, 02:39 PM   #117
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Re: Should the UK stay in the EU?

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What happens when refused,they claim HR and go to the european court of....
I should think few of them actually bother with all that aggro though! If they did we'd have cases going on day after day. To be honest the real bloodsuckers are the British folk who sue the NHS for making mistakes. There are some cases where terrible mistakes are made and compensation is deserved but when you get a drunk 21 year old suing A&E for not treating her after she verbally abused them and walked out, then you have to ask where the problem really lays. We see it in everything now; radio and TV adverts constantly enocouraging us to sue people and companies for making errors that all too often are minor and only human. A friend of mine who had a car accident and explained she was no longer suffering from whiplash was encouraged to lie to her GP by the insurance company and claim she had terrible back pain in order to secure higher compensation.

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Another threat on top of Obama's thinly veiled one in his 'back of the queue' speech...
But why wouldn't they Vince? If Poland is in the EU and they can cut their costs by operating in the EU rather than in post-EU Britain, it makes sound financial sense. An American company has no national loyalty to preserve British jobs at cost of their profits or invest in the UK if it gives them less back. Far from a threat, it's just common-sense surely?

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Old 05-16-2016, 03:05 PM   #118
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Re: Should the UK stay in the EU?

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I should think few of them actually bother with all that aggro though! If they did we'd have cases going on day after day. To be honest the real bloodsuckers are the British folk who sue the NHS for making mistakes. There are some cases where terrible mistakes are made and compensation is deserved but when you get a drunk 21 year old suing A&E for not treating her after she verbally abused them and walked out, then you have to ask where the problem really lays. We see it in everything now; radio and TV adverts constantly enocouraging us to sue people and companies for making errors that all too often are minor and only human. A friend of mine who had a car accident and explained she was no longer suffering from whiplash was encouraged to lie to her GP by the insurance company and claim she had terrible back pain in order to secure higher compensation.



But why wouldn't they Vince? If Poland is in the EU and they can cut their costs by operating in the EU rather than in post-EU Britain, it makes sound financial sense. An American company has no national loyalty to preserve British jobs at cost of their profits or invest in the UK if it gives them less back. Far from a threat, it's just common-sense surely?
If someone's brahms and liszt,goes arse over head and ends up in A+E all insurance SHOULD BE cancelled (whether state or private),same as drunk drivers if they hit something,they end up footing the bill....If someone's verbally abused in A+E why weren't the police called take them to the station see the police doctor then given a night or mores rest in a cell!...Plus where do you think these 'bloodsuckers' get the right to sue anybody in the first place...As to your friend the insurance company could be investigated and the actual person that told her that be seen by the police...

What gives any foreign company the right to threaten the uk with moving to europe if they leave the eu,this is what i don't get,the uk's got leave or stay but have you heard threats from banks/finance etc (although some have probably done a bit of sabre rattleing) but it's mostly places that use the uk as a way into europe when they could have easily gone there in the first place..It might even work in reverse with companies in the eu wanting to get away from all the bureaucracy..
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Old 05-16-2016, 04:07 PM   #119
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Re: Should the UK stay in the EU?

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If someone's brahms and liszt,goes arse over head and ends up in A+E all insurance SHOULD BE cancelled (whether state or private),same as drunk drivers if they hit something,they end up footing the bill....If someone's verbally abused in A+E why weren't the police called take them to the station see the police doctor then given a night or mores rest in a cell!...Plus where do you think these 'bloodsuckers' get the right to sue anybody in the first place...As to your friend the insurance company could be investigated and the actual person that told her that be seen by the police...

What gives any foreign company the right to threaten the uk with moving to europe if they leave the eu,this is what i don't get,the uk's got leave or stay but have you heard threats from banks/finance etc (although some have probably done a bit of sabre rattleing) but it's mostly places that use the uk as a way into europe when they could have easily gone there in the first place..It might even work in reverse with companies in the eu wanting to get away from all the bureaucracy..
The suing phenomenon is purely a British 'way of life' that we seem to have borrowed from the US. Speaking from experience, the culture simply doesn't exist in Europe. Even if the legislation is EU enshrined, it's how the nation implements it that matters and our unfortunate mindset of someone always being to blame and needing suing is the problem rather than any potential EU ruling. There is no difference between the insurance company encouraging my friend to fake symptoms and the radio adverts urging you to sue someone for suffering a minor fall from a ladder. You simply cannot police that kind of claim and call the patient a liar, it's the culture that needs to change and the government need to ban such advertising on TV and in the media.

Unfortunately the A&E incident is an example of regular occurrences across all three of our trust hospitals. Calling the Police often isn't an option until after the event has happened in which case a caution is usually the order of the day. I agree EU human rights laws are suspect in many cases but there's nothing wrong with staying in the EU to help put that right.

The company isn't threatening anyone really, they're merely stating there will be a risk to British jobs if we leave the EU. Too often this is jumped on as 'scaremongering' and 'threatening' by the 'Leave' campaign when all the company is doing is being completely honest with the British electorate. EU bureaucracy is no worse than our own self-made red tape sadly; Vince, if you could see the amount of time I see wasted on 'procedures, criteria, objectives, end-of-year targets' etc daily in various businesses you'd see it's all our own doing and nothing to do with the EU. It's a complete red herring to hold the EU responsible for our own failings.
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Old 05-16-2016, 04:26 PM   #120
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Re: Should the UK stay in the EU?

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Originally Posted by bskc8th View Post
The suing phenomenon is purely a British 'way of life' that we seem to have borrowed from the US. Speaking from experience, the culture simply doesn't exist in Europe. Even if the legislation is EU enshrined, it's how the nation implements it that matters and our unfortunate mindset of someone always being to blame and needing suing is the problem rather than any potential EU ruling. There is no difference between the insurance company encouraging my friend to fake symptoms and the radio adverts urging you to sue someone for suffering a minor fall from a ladder. You simply cannot police that kind of claim and call the patient a liar, it's the culture that needs to change and the government need to ban such advertising on TV and in the media.

Unfortunately the A&E incident is an example of regular occurrences across all three of our trust hospitals. Calling the Police often isn't an option until after the event has happened in which case a caution is usually the order of the day. I agree EU human rights laws are suspect in many cases but there's nothing wrong with staying in the EU to help put that right.

The company isn't threatening anyone really, they're merely stating there will be a risk to British jobs if we leave the EU. Too often this is jumped on as 'scaremongering' and 'threatening' by the 'Leave' campaign when all the company is doing is being completely honest with the British electorate. EU bureaucracy is no worse than our own self-made red tape sadly; Vince, if you could see the amount of time I see wasted on 'procedures, criteria, objectives, end-of-year targets' etc daily in various businesses you'd see it's all our own doing and nothing to do with the EU. It's a complete red herring to hold the EU responsible for our own failings.
I know the sue culture is from the states but i think the main problem is the human rights laws from the eu which ties everyones hands behind their backs whilst the person in the wrong can get away with almost anything (get rid of the eu means you can get your own laws back),as for the A+E problem it's exactly the same over here again peoples hands tied with uneeded red tape,forget one copy of something we need five,get rid of uneeded civil servants and people in charge that aren't capable of doing the job they were promoted to,you lower the wage bill which means more money to invest back into the system...
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