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View Poll Results: Stay in or leave the EU?
Stay in the EU 32 48.48%
Leave the EU 24 36.36%
Either decision is fine with me 10 15.15%
Voters: 66. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-01-2016, 03:04 PM   #16
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Re: Should the UK stay in the EU?

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Originally Posted by NY Yankees View Post
A lot of economists in the US think the EU really benefits Germany.
I sometimes think it's Germany that runs europe....
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Old 05-01-2016, 03:35 PM   #17
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Re: Should the UK stay in the EU?

German businesses thrived in the EU, while a lot of British companies, Rolls Royce, Bentley, Leyland Mini etc went bankrupt.

From the WSJ
Quote:
Once devoutly pro-European, Thatcher had come to worry by the late 1980s that grand projects emerging from Brussels, like the effort to create a single European currency, would centralize power and create a vast bureaucracy. She saw that democratic accountability would be impossible across a wildly polyglot European Union. And she feared that the sort of cronyism and collusion among big business and politicians that she had dismantled in the U.K. would re-emerge in Brussels. Almost every one of her fears has been vindicated.
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Old 05-01-2016, 03:47 PM   #18
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Re: Should the UK stay in the EU?

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Originally Posted by NY Yankees View Post
German businesses thrived in the EU, while a lot of British companies, Rolls Royce, Bentley, Leyland Mini etc went bankrupt.
Fair comment but whose auto workers back in the 70's decided to smash up japanese imports instead of trying to improve build quality of Detroit production lines...
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Old 05-01-2016, 04:03 PM   #19
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Re: Should the UK stay in the EU?

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I sometimes think it's Germany that runs europe....
We agree at least on that Vince!

I do think Germany's power is beginning to wane however. Letting in a million immigrants has not been a popular decision. I was in Berlin the week before last and didn't come across a single person who was in agreement with Angela Merkel's open-door policy. I witnessed several groups of immigrants camping in the Tiergarten, playing loud Arabic music.

A close friend of mine was in Heidelberg last week and was asked to intervene in a dispute while he was in the town archives; a Syrian chap had walked in and was demanding he be given money in broken English. Being English, my friend was asked to translate (He speaks fluent German) and explained it isn't acceptable in Europe to walk into a building and harass people for money...
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Old 05-01-2016, 04:14 PM   #20
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Re: Should the UK stay in the EU?

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Originally Posted by vince1159 View Post
Fair comment but whose auto workers back in the 70's decided to smash up japanese imports instead of trying to improve build quality of Detroit production lines...
Sweden built safe, reliable cars, put out good products, Volvo went under, Saab is gone. Volvo, Saab thrived before the EU.

Switzerland did pretty well, has a strong economy and stayed out of the EU.
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Old 05-01-2016, 04:20 PM   #21
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Re: Should the UK stay in the EU?

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Originally Posted by bskc8th View Post
We agree at least on that Vince!

I do think Germany's power is beginning to wane however. Letting in a million immigrants has not been a popular decision. I was in Berlin the week before last and didn't come across a single person who was in agreement with Angela Merkel's open-door policy. I witnessed several groups of immigrants camping in the Tiergarten, playing loud Arabic music.

A close friend of mine was in Heidelberg last week and was asked to intervene in a dispute while he was in the town archives; a Syrian chap had walked in and was demanding he be given money in broken English. Being English, my friend was asked to translate (He speaks fluent German) and explained it isn't acceptable in Europe to walk into a building and harass people for money...
All i'm going to say about that is the way they/she treated Greece over immigrants was a disgrace...It's alright saying "Germany's power is beginning to wane" but it's european politics at the end of the day and that usually means each country for itself,wouldn't trust any of them...
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Old 05-01-2016, 04:55 PM   #22
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Re: Should the UK stay in the EU?

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Originally Posted by NY Yankees View Post
Switzerland did pretty well, has a strong economy and stayed out of the EU.
Given the name of some companies there and the low tax i'm not really suprised....
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Old 05-01-2016, 05:47 PM   #23
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Re: Should the UK stay in the EU?

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Originally Posted by NY Yankees View Post
Sweden built safe, reliable cars, put out good products, Volvo went under, Saab is gone. Volvo, Saab thrived before the EU.
What? Volvo is still around, and SAAB had debts of 11 billion SEK, 8 billion of which was debts towards GM. I admit that i am no expert, but i don't think that has anything to do with the EU.
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Old 05-01-2016, 06:32 PM   #24
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Re: Should the UK stay in the EU?

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What? Volvo is still around, and SAAB had debts of 11 billion SEK, 8 billion of which was debts towards GM. I admit that i am no expert, but i don't think that has anything to do with the EU.
Volvo cars is still around because of the Ford bailout and is now owned by the Chinese.
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Old 05-01-2016, 06:49 PM   #25
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Re: Should the UK stay in the EU?

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Originally Posted by NY Yankees View Post
Volvo cars is still around because of the Ford bailout and is now owned by the Chinese.
But did that really have anything to do with the EU?

Either way, i think the whole of the EU should disband. I am not at all a fan of it. But before anyone gets any ideas, it has nothing to do with immigration.
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Old 05-01-2016, 11:06 PM   #26
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Re: Should the UK stay in the EU?

I have no understanding with regard to UK/EU policies/politics. I was surprised, however, that the UK became part of the Union as it was my understanding that Brits were quite proud of their individual, seperate and non-continental identity.

Even with special dispensation granted to keep the British Pound, it seems odd to me that the British would even need to ask permission for this...

What would Lord Nelson say about this?
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Old 05-02-2016, 06:24 AM   #27
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Re: Should the UK stay in the EU?

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I have no understanding with regard to UK/EU policies/politics. I was surprised, however, that the UK became part of the Union as it was my understanding that Brits were quite proud of their individual, seperate and non-continental identity.

Even with special dispensation granted to keep the British Pound, it seems odd to me that the British would even need to ask permission for this...

What would Lord Nelson say about this?
Brits are proud of our identity, but there is an element of having to be realistic. As much as some like to deny it, we are Europeans. The EU was partly born out of our collective desire to destroy one another; both Word Wars were started by European politicians after all. The EU is partly about ensuring we can never reach such a sorry state of affairs again. When we start throwing mud at one another over the immigrant crisis and the Greece situation, we're starting down the same road to internal European conflict. We allow Russia to take advantage of European quarrels, while reinforcing our subservience to the United States and upcoming economies like China and India. No single European state is able to be a superpower any more, but together - despite the faults which we have to work out together - we can be a union that forms a super-continent. I'd rather be a part of that than be sitting here in the UK isolated and ignored bemoaning our former glories. The whole 'out' campaign may have had a point a hundred years ago, but now it's just living in the past.

I might add, this comes from someone who is extremely proud to be from these islands, to be able to carry a British passport and looks back on our contribution to the history of the world with pride. I'm of a generation that has never known anything other than a depressed economy. I left higher education in 2011. Slowly but surely - for me and my peers - things are improving. Now some people want to throw economic uncertainty and a major geopolitical shift into the mix.
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Old 05-02-2016, 07:08 AM   #28
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Re: Should the UK stay in the EU?

I don't think the EU wants to be a Superpower, show some leadership and pride instead Europeans continue to ask America for protection against Russia since WW2.

Last edited by NY Yankees; 05-02-2016 at 07:13 AM.
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Old 05-02-2016, 07:43 AM   #29
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Re: Should the UK stay in the EU?

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I don't think the EU wants to be a Superpower, show some leadership and pride instead Europeans continue to ask America for protection against Russia since WW2.
I think it's more of a case that single European states can't defend themselves. Only in NATO can that be achieved. However, only the US, UK, Poland, Greece and Estonia meet the 2% spending target. Clearly that doesn't correlate to financial wellbeing as Greece is currently on the brink of catastrophe, overrun with Muslim immigrants and under continued pressure from Germany. Surely France and Germany in particular have the ability to meet the 2%?

Similarly the argument that the US is stretched even further by having to defend new members like Croatia and the Baltic states isn't borne out; if Estonia can meet the 2%, why not Hungary, Romania or Lithuania?
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Old 05-02-2016, 08:31 AM   #30
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Re: Should the UK stay in the EU?

Most European economies except for Germany, aren't doing well and some doing really bad (Greece, Portugal etc.)
Militarily, the EU hasn't become a major player in world.

What's the point of the EU then?
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