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Old 07-21-2020, 09:05 AM   #1
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What if we created our own models ?

Hello,

I would like to tell you about my little researches. Since few months now, I am trying to create aircraft models like Herpa does. The idea is not to make real profit or compete with Herpa as I have another job. It is more

My first attempt is on its way, 3D model with colour already applied on the model. Prices are fine, something comparable to Herpa but it is resin, not metal. I gave them everything : 3d model and graphic chart. I received a picture of the first sample and I'm little disappointed for the moment. The model itself looks good, but the livery is not well applied on the model. I will require other tests.

But this is not the most important information. You may remember the great DC10 from Aero500. During my researches, I found the mould of the DC10 is not lost, nor the mould of the 777-200 and -300 they did. I discussed a little with the company who owns them and they are ready to use if required. They are also happy to produce new moulds but it is really to expensive (approx 20000USD).

The problem is they are strict about the minimum number of model to produce if the already existing moulds are used. They want at least 300 models to be produced. I don't know how many models Herpa or its defunct competitors produce per model but I think 300 is too much for the market. And I also cannot spend money for a such number of aircraft.

They don't agree to split the 300 models in many airlines, the only possibility is to split in two, with very similar liveries (for example, just changing the registration). For your information, producing 300 models with the already existing moulds seems to be around 6000 USD (including taxes but no licences).

This post is here to tell you that if we really want, together, we can perhaps make few models. This is hard, but possible. I would like to know your point of view about this, would you support a project trying to revive the DC10 or 777 used by Aero500 only ? I admit I would have been more interested by finding a mould of an A320. And which airlines could interest so many people if I go in this direction? I was thinking of DC10 FedEx perhaps, which is missing in 1/500 and can fit in many collections.

I am happy to hear your feelings about this.
Thank you very much !
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Old 07-21-2020, 10:01 AM   #2
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Re: What if we created our own models ?

Very interesting discovery!

But due to low customer reach and the min. 300 models cap, I don't think it would be a viable business. We barely have 100 active users on this platform, let alone the same amount who would want to buy only B777 or DC-10s. Perhaps we could come up with a survey on the interests of the customers and what airline most people would want and see if we can potentially reach that 300 mark. My personal choice would be the B777. But collectors nowadays prefer more modern aircrafts like the B787 or A320neo. Widebodies are proven to be the more profitable choice so maybe we could go down that route....

Here's another idea, what if they just sold a plain white B777/DC-10? That way more stock would be sold (mainly to custom makers) as compared to one airline at a time (where the demand may not be as high) I can see custom makers buying maybe up to 10 at a time...if they are affordable

Since the Unit cost of production for 1 model is US$20 ($6000/300), perhaps they could price it such that 1 plain white model will cost just US$25 or less for the customer.
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Old 07-21-2020, 12:33 PM   #3
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Re: What if we created our own models ?

After a few questions, they would be ready to lower their minimum order to 200, which is still big.
I though DC10 was more attractive because under represented in 1/500 compared to the B777.
I honestly prefer short/medium haul aircraft like ATR, A319/A320, etc. But you are right, many people prefer modern jets than old aircraft like the DC10.

The problem for doing them white - I think - is there is not that much people ready to custom their models. Something possible could be to make a set with a plain white aircraft with a decal set, but I don't think many would be interested.
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Old 07-21-2020, 01:27 PM   #4
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Re: What if we created our own models ?

At first glance: Endless possibilities. And then my thoughts started to wander around. In the end you need some binding agreement (upfront payment?) with potential buyers to spread the financial risk before placing an order with the producer.

Maybe not only private persons, but also retailers who might buy not only a single copy...? (If licensing was no issue...)

6K and even 4K are not really peanuts for a hobby...

You need a potential hot seller - maybe some Lufthansa or Emirates...
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Old 07-21-2020, 01:32 PM   #5
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Re: What if we created our own models ?

Apart from that: Interesting to learn how much the Development of a new mould costs. No wonder that Herpa et al try to squeeze as much as possible out of a given mould and hesitate to rework it - albeit such an improvement would be in the very interest of us collectors.

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Old 07-21-2020, 02:34 PM   #6
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Re: What if we created our own models ?

It is always great when someone like you, Pierre, tries to start a new business in scale models. The passion and the love for our hobby can make miracles.
I think DC-10 would sell better: latest shameful Aero500 B777's made a kind of barrier among collectors and B777. Yes, it the B777's produced would be almost perfect they could sell, but Herpa already satured the B777 market, not many of them can be produced without having a copy or a re-release.
The DC-10 would sell well: many collectors still debate about the model and this means that the airplane is a most wanted.
Good luck Pierre.
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Old 07-21-2020, 02:36 PM   #7
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Re: What if we created our own models ?

It's a very interesting proposition.

Licenses would be the main concern, if you were to be based anywhere in the EU you would probably be bothered with licenses. The reason Sky500 can release models from far flung airlines that Herpa doesn't bother wiht is because they're based in someone's basement in HK or China. Otherwise producing unlisenced models will likely result in a pretty hefty fine..

I think models that have very high appeal would be the A320 or 737 family of underrepresented big airlines that have had licensing issues in the past. Those would be easy sellers. Think Ryanair, easyJet, Wizzair.. If you go big; a lot of 777s have been done in the past and with the DC-10 you have a niche mould to start with. Not everyone collects classic DC-10s, but you could do a lot of past liveries with say an A320 mould.
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Old 07-21-2020, 02:41 PM   #8
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Re: What if we created our own models ?

I would be in for DC10's, but as said before I think you will need to get retailers on board and get the license issue solved, even for bankrupt airlines.

Would guess the DC10 will sell well, if you view the Aero500 ones are always sold out like hot cakes and IF you get them again, say on ebay, you have to pay good prices usually. Tried to get a Thai DC10 recently and was outbid at 85EUR.
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Old 07-21-2020, 03:41 PM   #9
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I think DC-10 will be sold well.Actually,DC-10 with beautiful color,like BA londor or old Lufthansa are very popular now.Especially,BA DC-10 was sold very expensive.Furthermore,most of Aero500 and inFlight500 DC-10 are not available now.I often watch ebay or other auction site but I can’t find them.
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Old 07-21-2020, 07:12 PM   #10
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Re: What if we created our own models ?

Very interesting, indeed,

DC-10-30 Swissair (chocolate livery)

B777-200 British Airways (Landor)

would be great.
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Old 07-22-2020, 03:08 PM   #11
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Re: What if we created our own models ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HAJ-09L View Post
In the end you need some binding agreement (upfront payment?) with potential buyers to spread the financial risk before placing an order with the producer.

Maybe not only private persons, but also retailers who might buy not only a single copy...? (If licensing was no issue...)

6K and even 4K are not really peanuts for a hobby...
You are right, 4K/6K is not so much for a start. That's why it makes me feeling that something can be done. I think you have a idea by telling I should see with retailer if they could support a project like this. I also think about crownfunding because it is something that works well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charter View Post
It is always great when someone like you, Pierre, tries to start a new business in scale models. The passion and the love for our hobby can make miracles.
I think DC-10 would sell better: latest shameful Aero500 B777's made a kind of barrier among collectors and B777. Yes, it the B777's produced would be almost perfect they could sell, but Herpa already satured the B777 market, not many of them can be produced without having a copy or a re-release.
The DC-10 would sell well: many collectors still debate about the model and this means that the airplane is a most wanted.
Good luck Pierre.
I also agree that DC10 would sell better because there is less competition than the B777. The question is however, is there enough DC 10 interesting collectors ? For a start, 1 is enough however )

Quote:
Originally Posted by DutchCollector View Post
Licenses would be the main concern, if you were to be based anywhere in the EU you would probably be bothered with licenses. The reason Sky500 can release models from far flung airlines that Herpa doesn't bother wiht is because they're based in someone's basement in HK or China. Otherwise producing unlisenced models will likely result in a pretty hefty fine..

I think models that have very high appeal would be the A320 or 737 family of underrepresented big airlines that have had licensing issues in the past. Those would be easy sellers. Think Ryanair, easyJet, Wizzair.. If you go big; a lot of 777s have been done in the past and with the DC-10 you have a niche mould to start with. Not everyone collects classic DC-10s, but you could do a lot of past liveries with say an A320 mould.
As I'm living in France, if business is started, it would be with licence agreement. I cannot avoid them despite they are annoying. But I think they seems more difficult to obtain than they are depending of the airlines.

I am personally more interested by an A320 or B737 classic mold because I see more potential. But the creation of a mold is not for now, perhaps for never as very expensive. I would be an option if business is started, and if first DC10/B777 sells well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedbird 001 View Post
I would be in for DC10's, but as said before I think you will need to get retailers on board and get the license issue solved, even for bankrupt airlines.

Would guess the DC10 will sell well, if you view the Aero500 ones are always sold out like hot cakes and IF you get them again, say on ebay, you have to pay good prices usually. Tried to get a Thai DC10 recently and was outbid at 85EUR.
I'm not sure about sales onboard, as you say, only few DC10 are flying so that's probably not be what airlines want to sell on their recent jets. But it can be a good idea for the B777.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat777 View Post
I think DC-10 will be sold well.Actually,DC-10 with beautiful color,like BA londor or old Lufthansa are very popular now.Especially,BA DC-10 was sold very expensive.Furthermore,most of Aero500 and inFlight500 DC-10 are not available now.I often watch ebay or other auction site but I can’t find them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_cruiser View Post
Very interesting, indeed,

DC-10-30 Swissair (chocolate livery)

B777-200 British Airways (Landor)

would be great.
Thank you for the suggestion, I keep it as it is interesting to know. I first though about FedEx DC10 as they are still flying and didn't thought about these. It see BA landor is attractive.

---
As I have your feelings about this project and as I see there is a little support, I'm gonna explore more about the creation of a DC 10. This includes all the legal aspects (creation of a self-company -don't know the English term but something exists here in France -, contacts with airlines and retailers, funding, commercial taxes, risks, etc...). If you have any advice or suggestion, feel free to tell me.
The target price would be between 30€ and 40€. This is high but it needs to cover all the aspects of the creation.
With a first model, the project would be to save few money to create another model and again and again until maybe a new aircraft type. Please keep in mind this has however many chances to fail
This will take time, but I think there is something possible to do.
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Old 07-22-2020, 03:30 PM   #12
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Re: What if we created our own models ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malefiska View Post
You are right, 4K/6K is not so much for a start. That's why it makes me feeling that something can be done. I think you have a idea by telling I should see with retailer if they could support a project like this. I also think about crownfunding because it is something that works well.



I also agree that DC10 would sell better because there is less competition than the B777. The question is however, is there enough DC 10 interesting collectors ? For a start, 1 is enough however )



As I'm living in France, if business is started, it would be with licence agreement. I cannot avoid them despite they are annoying. But I think they seems more difficult to obtain than they are depending of the airlines.

I am personally more interested by an A320 or B737 classic mold because I see more potential. But the creation of a mold is not for now, perhaps for never as very expensive. I would be an option if business is started, and if first DC10/B777 sells well.



I'm not sure about sales onboard, as you say, only few DC10 are flying so that's probably not be what airlines want to sell on their recent jets. But it can be a good idea for the B777.





Thank you for the suggestion, I keep it as it is interesting to know. I first though about FedEx DC10 as they are still flying and didn't thought about these. It see BA landor is attractive.

---
As I have your feelings about this project and as I see there is a little support, I'm gonna explore more about the creation of a DC 10. This includes all the legal aspects (creation of a self-company -don't know the English term but something exists here in France -, contacts with airlines and retailers, funding, commercial taxes, risks, etc...). If you have any advice or suggestion, feel free to tell me.
The target price would be between 30€ and 40€. This is high but it needs to cover all the aspects of the creation.
With a first model, the project would be to save few money to create another model and again and again until maybe a new aircraft type. Please keep in mind this has however many chances to fail
This will take time, but I think there is something possible to do.

I didnt mean onboard sales but to get retailers on board as well, not only privte buyers.
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Old 07-22-2020, 03:32 PM   #13
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Re: What if we created our own models ?

I understood badly. Then, in this case, I fully agree with you.
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Old 07-22-2020, 03:53 PM   #14
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Re: What if we created our own models ?

What about customs and logistics?
E.g.:
Are tariffs for import into EU territory already included?
Where will you store the models until they are sold? (Would space be a problem?)


...anyway, interesting project - keep us informed!
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Old 07-22-2020, 05:35 PM   #15
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Re: What if we created our own models ?

I can do the storage and dispatch myself. That would save few money involved (like I can do the design livery).

The unit price includes a model and a box but doesn't include license and customs/taxes from China to Europe. This what I need to learn before doing anything.
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