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Old 05-11-2019, 10:19 AM   #46
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Re: Herpa mysteries...

I agree with you, Ale, one such model is Air India B744
https://www.aviation-center-berlin.de/p/531849
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Old 05-11-2019, 11:32 AM   #47
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Re: Herpa mysteries...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charter View Post
So i pay 100 euro a year to vote for a Club model that, if will not have enough votes, will never be released and for a Club model released on December.
Seeing the Air India on ACB that's 1/3 of the price…

Then you have a much higher chance to get your wish (well, out of those 10…). As a non-member I can only hope, the demand is neither to low (not produced) nor to high (none left for normal people).

And you get the release papers for free… Not, that I can't paper my house with them already
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Old 05-11-2019, 01:42 PM   #48
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Re: Herpa mysteries...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charter View Post
7) The seventh mystery is about Herpa Wings Club.
The question is simple: if i pay about 100 euro for being Herpa Wings Club member, why the "exclusive"
models and WingsWorld magazine are sold even in the main aviation shops, very often at lower prices than those i pay?
A membership, especially if paid around 100 euro per year, shoud give something of really exclusive: Herpa Wings Club membership doesn't, because what Herpa offers to the members is offered also at Aviation Center Berlin, Aviationmegastore and maybe other aviation models shops around the world.
The only exclusive thing is the opportunity to vote for the 6 Club models released each year: from the list of 10 models only the Club members can express their vote, and the free-of-charge December model (not the Christmas model!) offered to the members. So i pay 100 euro a year to vote for a Club model that, if will not have enough votes, will never be released and for a Club model released on December.

I think it is very few for 100 euro!

Yes, being a club member too, I consider it really lame that all the stuff that is listed as advantage is available elsewhere too. It more or less is only the "free" model.


But, hey you get a membership card! I know most people can't use it that way but I use it for the discount when shopping at the herpa store in Dietenhofen 2-3x per year....they sometimes offer rare stuff there.


But you're right, the club membership is not what it is supposed to be.
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Old 05-12-2019, 05:19 PM   #49
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Re: Herpa mysteries...

8) Eight mystery is about Deleted models.
These the deleted models:


Lauda Air B737-800WL
Transaero Imperial B737-500
Vladivostok-Avia Tu-204-300
Sudan Airways A300-600
Emirates SkyCargo B747-8F
Singapore Airlines B747-400 "Tropical"
Korean Air A380 (announced and then, misteriously, disappeared even as sample)
America West B737-300
SATA/Azores Airlines B737-300.



Honestly speaking in more than 25 years of production these models aren't so many, but they are "heavy" as importance.

Vladivostok-Avia Tu-204-300 is the shortened version of the Tu-204/214, it could have been a "new" model, a great addition to our already rich collection.
Lauda Air B737-800WL, this airline is one of my most loved because Niki Lauda is a myth. It has been a real pity to renounce at this wonderful model.
Transaero Imperial B737-500, the first class brand of Transaero, this model has been produced as sample and sold for about 600 euro...a madness.
Sudan Airways A300-600 one of the few African airlines, different from SAA, produced by Herpa and it was deleted. It was also the occasion to add the A300 to the B707 already produced by Inflight500...deleted.
Emirates SkyCargo B747-8F this model never existed in Emirates SkyCargo fleet because the airline switched to the B777F replacing the B747-400F. In this case Herpa deleted the model for a right reason, it would have been a fantasy model.
Singapore Airlines B747-400 "Tropical" maybe deleted after the terrible incident of October 2000, the first fatal accident involving a B747-400. Flight 006, a B747-400 in the wonderful "Tropical" livery, tried to takeoff from the wrong runway at Taiwan International airport: 83 dead.
Herpa deleted this model for a good reason: why to produce a model of an airplane crashed with 83 broken lives?

Korean Air A380 completely disappeared in a black hole, even the sample. Maybe this is one of the few more mysterious Herpa models. License problems for sure.
America West and SATA/Azores Airlines B737 are the same problem, Herpa decision to not to restart the production of B737 classic (B737-300, B737-400, B737-500).
Both B737-300's would have been beautiful. Deleted.
The mystery is: why to delete a model if already announced? If there is the announce this means that everything is ready, especially the biggest obstacle for Herpa, the licenses; the deal is done, money are allocated and divided.
The airline failed? Not the case of Lauda Air and for Vladivostok-Avia it ceased operations in 2013, but even for WOW Air the airline failed but Herpa produced the A321WL the same.
And what to say for Sudan Air A300-600, a model becoming an highlight for our collections: one of the few airlines of the immense Africa, a colorful livery, the beautiful A300...deleted for "few demand".
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Old 05-12-2019, 06:19 PM   #50
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Re: Herpa mysteries...

I think the Lauda 737 was deleted by request of Austrian Airlines, right? Unfortunately nothing Herpa could do. Would have been a beautiful model, too bad Austrian decided against it

The Emirates SkyCargo B747-8F cancellation was the right thing to do, as you wrote. It would be a wasted release as a fantasy model. Speaking of fantasy models... Northwest, Continental and KLM (old livery) 787s just came to my mind. Useless models

Vladivostok Avia Tu-204-300: There are so few Tu-204-300s flying... Herpa probably didn't want to take the cost of producing the new mold, and I must say I might agree with them. Not really a priority. Vladivostok ceased operations and maybe Herpa deduced the sales would be too slim.

Sudan Airways A300 would have been indeed a lovely classic release, a shame it was cancelled.
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Old 05-12-2019, 07:29 PM   #51
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Re: Herpa mysteries...

So the Tu-204-300 and the two recent 737-300 are mold problems, Emirates Cargo is "fantasy".

The other likely explainations:
* Singapore "Tropical": Somewhere in the depth of this forum I've read, the model was canceled on request of the airline – and in my oppinion a very understandable.
* Sudan Airways: In Summer 2014 the EU introduced a list of airlines and in some cases airplanes banned from usage within the EU. Sudan Airways is on that list and Herpa may use this as a blacklist for them as well (however they did the Iran Air Fokker 100…).
* Transaero Imperial 737-500: Am I correct, Herpa switched to the normal 737-800? Also the airline closed quickly after.
* Lauda 737… as Leo said.
* Korean Air is very likely licences. Models of this airline have been made by everybody *but* Herpa: Inflight 500, Hogan, AeroClassics, StarJets, Netmodel, Sky500 (latest). They now own A220-300 and 747-8I, where Herpa rarely misses a chance for even the most exotic versions. The last time, Herpa struck: 2009 with an 747-400F!
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Old 05-16-2019, 09:01 AM   #52
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Re: Herpa mysteries...

9) This 9th mystery was born suddenly, maybe strictly personal, reflecting on the B737 classic:


"why an Italian collector, living in a country where the B737-300, B737-400 and B737-500 did not fly so much except for few airlines as Blue Panorama, Mistral Air, Air One, "fight" so much trying to make a change of decision by Herpa about the production of these beautiful airplanes, while the majority of collectors, especially those living in countries where the B737-300/400/500 filled the sky as flies. seem not to have care about them?"
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Old 05-16-2019, 10:53 PM   #53
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Re: Herpa mysteries...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charter View Post
9) This 9th mystery was born suddenly, maybe strictly personal, reflecting on the B737 classic:


"why an Italian collector, living in a country where the B737-300, B737-400 and B737-500 did not fly so much except for few airlines as Blue Panorama, Mistral Air, Air One, "fight" so much trying to make a change of decision by Herpa about the production of these beautiful airplanes, while the majority of collectors, especially those living in countries where the B737-300/400/500 filled the sky as flies. seem not to have care about them?"

The 9th mystery is just a personal one, a prelude to something more mysterious and inexplicable.
To introduce the 10th mystery i want to start with the cost of production of a new mould. When Antonio from Italy decided to try to build resin A320 and B737 moulds in 1:500 scale, he attempted to realize some of them and the cost for each model rised to around 90 euro; he wanted to start with Meridiana, then neos, Blue Panorama, easyJet, Ryanair, WizzAir...nothing to do, too much expensive. Impossible to keep the cost for unit under 80 euro, according to the fact that the mould cost was around 15.000 euro.
This is about what Herpa spends for each new mould: 15.000 to 20.000 euro, money recovered selling thousands of licensed models.

Now let me introduce some moulds Herpa released: i don't say they are bad, never said and i will never say this! They are very, very nice, even beautiful, especially the Russian/Soviet era airplanes. But let me to introduce them:

Tu-114. 32 models built in 1:1 scale, the airplane flew for Aeroflot, Soviet Air Force mand one with JAL in Aeroflot livery.
The Tu-114 entered in service in 1961 and was retired in 1976.
Tu-144. 16 models built in 1:1 scale, operators were Aeroflot and NASA, passenger service from 1/11/1977 to 1/6/1978. The Russian Concorde was a nice airplane but very poor as career...
A300-600ST Beluga. Airbus built 5 airplanes starting from the A300-600 frame, realizing a giant cargo whale useful to carry parts of the A320 family airplanes up and down Europe, in the various assembly plants.
The evolution is the Beluga XL, 3 airplanes planned.
Shorts 360. 21,58 meters long (4,3 cm in 1:500 scale) this small regional airplane has been built in 165 exemplars. In 2013 only 13 airplanes still active with these airlines:
Air Seychelles
Ayit Aviation and Tourism
Comeravia
Malu Aviation
Servicios Aereos Profesionales
Interisland Airways
Deraya Air Taxi
Pacific Coastal Airlines
Tiara Air
Herpa produced Qantas Link, British Airways, Air Seychelles, Air Jamaica, Aer Lingus Commuter.
Do328Jet. 21 meters long (4,2 cm in 1:500 scale) the Dornier 328Jet was built in 105 exemplars. In July 2018 only 32 airplanes still in service.
These the airlines still operating the model:
DC Aviation (Germany) 1
Calm Air International (Canada) 1
Avex Air Transport (South Africa) 2
ComTran International (USA) 1
Angola Air Services (Angola) 1
International Bank of Commerce (USA) 1
Private Wings Flugcharter (Germany) 10
Aviando Services (USA) 2
Hi-Jet Helicopters (Suriname) 1
Aerostar (Ukraine) 1
Skybird Air (Nigeria) 1
Mid Africa Aviation (Gambia) 1
FlyMex (Mexico) 2
Royal Star Aviation
Aero-Dienst (Germany) 2
Sishen Iron Ore Company 1
Policia Federal Mexico (Mexico) 1
Air Peace (Nigeria) 1
Sun Air Scandinavia (Denmark) 15
Herpa produced ADAC, Sun Air Scandinavia, Welcome Air.

After this introduction, airlines and models, my question is:
"how much Herpa has spent for the releasing and production of these moulds? 10.000 euro each? 20.000 for the bigger airplanes, Tu-114 and Tu-144? For a production of an handful of models, 5 Shorts 360, 3 Do328Jet, very few Tu-114, Tu-144 and Beluga.
Have Herpa recovered or even earned by the production of these moulds and the sale of the few airlines and models produced?"...I don't think.
In fact Herpa stopped the production of the Shorts 360 and the Do328Jet. Impossible to sell models of airlines unknown even to themselves, impossible obtaining licenses from remote and completely unknown airlines.
I repeat, beautiful moulds and beautiful models but a completely wrong marketing decision in my opinion; and we can't say "the airlines wanted these models in 1:500 scale" because i can't believe something like this!
Even the Beluga, "strongly wanted from Airbus" as someone would say, but with no future!
Even considering 10.000 euro per mould, Herpa spent around 50.000 euro for the production of no-future moulds/models.
Wasn't better to focuse the production and to invest the money in developing something like the Yakovlev Yak-42, for example, or to produce a new, improved B737 classic mould?
The Yak-42, 36 meters long (7 cm in 1:500 scale) has been built in 185 exemplars and has been used by the major Russian, CIS and east Europe airlines.
Just some examples:
Aeroflot
Irkut
Izhavia
Centre Avia
Tatarstan
Lviv Airlines
Kuban Airlines
Cubana
Saravia
UTAir
Kras Avia
Saratov Airlines
UM Air
Donbassaero
Armavia
Sirius-Aero
Yak Service
Air Ukraine
Lithuanian Airlines
Gazpromavia
Air Bosna
Elbrus Avia
Air Moldova
Karat
RusJet
Aviaprad
Avioimpex
Proton
Lukoil
Grozny Avia
About the B737 classic (B737-300/400/500) i have talked enough.
The Yak-42 continued to fly west Europe years after the ban of the Tu-154, and Salzburg airport has been witness of Yak-42's invasion for the winter season until few years ago.
There is also another consideration to make: even if beautiful the 1:500 scale is too small for small airplanes like Shorts 360, Do328 and even smaller like Twin Otter. They become microscopic.
With 35.000/40.000 euro Herpa would have develop a completely new mould (Yak-42) and build a new, improved B737 classic mould. Even with a "low demand" the sale of B737-300/400/500 improved mould and the most wanted Yak-42 would have been enormously positive and with a bright future ahead.
Or "i am once again wrong" and even the Yak-42 is boring, not-well-selling, unpopular?
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Old 05-17-2019, 05:19 AM   #54
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Re: Herpa mysteries...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charter View Post
...This is about what Herpa spends for each new mould: 15.000 to 20.000 euro, money recovered selling thousands of licensed models...
...how much Herpa has spent for the releasing and production of these moulds...
Who is the source of these figures? herpa? About ten years ago the costs for a new mould were in the low four-figure area (€; Chinese source; from 1:400 downscaled mould). Some years ago herpa told me that they estimated about 10 000 € for a new mould tooling (someone who used to work for Simba/Dickie in China commented that 10 000€ appeared to him considerably overvalued).

herpa does not develop injection mould tooling for die cast models (source herpa). They buy the mould tooling (? the herpa source was not entirely clear) or pay »usage fees« (the Chinese partner owns and controls the mould tooling; I’m rather inclined to think that this applies to a majority of the 1:500-scale moulds in use by herpa).
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Old 05-17-2019, 04:55 PM   #55
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Re: Herpa mysteries...

The source is directly from a manufacturer, Antonio N., producing 1:100, 1:144, 1:200 civil and military models for Italian Air Force, Alitalia, ex Eurofly/Meridiana/Air Italy, neos, Blue Panorama.
The develop of a 1:500 resin/plastic mould is around 15.000 euro, something close and in line with the cost of 10 years ago and of 5 years ago.
Using resin instead of metal costs should be lower, but both A320 and B737 are expensive to produce.
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Old 05-17-2019, 05:37 PM   #56
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Re: Herpa mysteries...

Molds for resin are *extremely* cheap, however they can only be used a few times (<50). A mold for diecast is usually the exact opposite: Quite expensive in the construction (I'd say something around 50.000€!), but can be used "a million times"… For some reason, the molds Herpa uses wear out much faster than I'd expect for diecast.
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Old 05-19-2019, 08:21 AM   #57
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Re: Herpa mysteries...

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_K View Post
Molds for resin are *extremely* cheap, however they can only be used a few times (<50). A mold for diecast is usually the exact opposite: Quite expensive in the construction (I'd say something around 50.000€!), but can be used "a million times"… For some reason, the molds Herpa uses wear out much faster than I'd expect for diecast.
I did not know about this. When Antonio planned to start the production of resin A320 and B737 he wanted to realize about 15/20 models for each mould. But the costs were exaggerated, about 80 euro each.




11th mystery is a big question: why in 1:500 scale there aren't serious and strong Herpa competitors?
The era with Big Bird, Netmodels, Aero500, Hogan, StarJets is very far, and even with all these manufacturers only StarJets has been a strong competitor.
After StarJets...the void! Big Bird and Netmodels, two regular producers, failed, while Aero500/Aeroclassics and Hogan are even more irritating because they produce a batch of news every 2/3 years...
Sky500 announced itself like a good competitor but without enough moulds to develop: just B747, A330/340, B787. The production of several A320's and a single MD-80 deceived us but then disappointed us with the disappear of the manufacturer. Sky500 worked without license from airlines so the potentiality of production would have been enormous, even if illegal.
But we don't need of these "meteors", even if bright; 1:400 scale has many regular, strong, serious manufacturers, many "Herpa"! Phoenix, Gemini, Aeroclassics, JC Wings (even if this manufacturer announces models that will be produced after 2 years...), NG Models, Panda Models: three strong manufacturers competing each other and other minor but not less important manufacturers. Many models, many liveries, moulds,
In 1:500 scale there is just "one" Herpa, no competitors and without competitors there are all the problems related to monopoly.
The mystery is why in 1:500 scale there arent' other manufacturers! There should be companies starting to produce 1:500 models, ready to satisfy the demand of new models and airlines, even producing only classic airlines of the past, or classic airplanes, or leisure airlines, or widebodies etc. etc. etc.
On the contrary the 1:500 world seems a minefield, a place where "Ebola" is ruling and nobody is allowed (or wants) to approach.
How many years from the demise of Starjets, 10? maybe 10 years, and in 10 years no new strong manufacturers, no Herpa competitors. Strange, incredibly strange.
I think there should be Chinese or American manufacturers with enough founds to start a massive production of 1:500 models, like in 1:400 scale!
What's the truth behind this mystery?
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Old 05-19-2019, 09:43 AM   #58
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Re: Herpa mysteries...

Ale, interesting 11th reason...rather mystery! Herpa has increased their prices for models and was just wondering why...could it be because they don't have strong competitors like Sky500 or BigBird500 or Hogan? Whatever the reason, 1/500 scale needs strong rivals to Herpa in terms of mold and models released, my friend! 1/400 scale, on the other hand has serious competition in the form of JC, GJ and Phoenix to name a few. Besides, Sky500 and other manufacturers release the same boring kind of releases (sorry folks, some of you may find some models interesting), but, there was a time when Sky500 was known (or should've been known) as SkyB777! Interesting to know Mystery #12, Ale!
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Old 05-19-2019, 12:19 PM   #59
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Re: Herpa mysteries...

I really don't know why Gemini Jets can't develop Starjets back again.
Herpa is cleary running a monopoly in 1:500 scale. For real, I see a big opportunity here. All Starjets have to do is:

1) Release consistent models on a regular basis. Don't need too much. Maybe 10 models per batch would be fine. They don't need to be bigger than Herpa, they just need to fill a niche neglected by Herpa!

2) Be cheaper than Herpa, even if not so much.

3) Release models which Herpa is neglecting.

For example: Gemini Jets have covered a wide part of North American airlines. If they release them in 1:500, we would have Spirit, Southwest, Allegiant, Frontier...

I've sent them an email one but, unfortunately, this was their answer:

Quote:
It's good point you make Leonardo. Starjets did make a decent 1/500
scale and their reintroduction would be welcome in the market kinda
owned by Herpa at the moment.

Unfortunately we have too many active lines right now to commence a
500 scale line, but it might be something to consider in the future.

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Old 05-19-2019, 02:42 PM   #60
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Posts: 215
The_K is flying under the radar
Re: Herpa mysteries...

Quote:
Originally Posted by solicitor82 View Post
there was a time when Sky500 was known (or should've been known) as SkyB777!
You probably thought of Aero500 (Aeroclassics). They only have three molds: 777-200, 777-300 and (much later) DC-10-30. All of these in superiour quality, but also used excessively. The 777 especially on major asian airlines like Air India, ANA, Asiana, EVA Air, JAL, Korean, Philippines, Singapore, Air China, China Southern, China Eastern, China Airlines; but also the most important North Americans.

Only two Europeans: Beating Herpa on BA 777-300 by one year and duplicating them (even the reg) on Swiss. Both models still available…

Now imagine Aeroclassics doing an A300 or the A320 family with their quality and all the versions! That would be expensive Or their current flood of early 767 in 1:400… *envy*

Last edited by The_K; 05-19-2019 at 02:52 PM.
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