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Old 06-03-2019, 05:50 PM   #1
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B737 MAX: what is happening?

Ciao to all.
A short summary about the B737 MAX, the new jewel of Boeing:
- January 29th 2016 first flight
- 2017 entered in service with Southwest Airlines
- October 29th 2018 Lion Air B737 MAX8 PK-LQP, two months of life, crashed into Java sea soon after take off from Jakarta airport: 189 dead
- March 10th 2019 Ethiopian Airlines B737 MAX8 ET-AVJ, four months of life, crashed in Addis Abeba outskirt soon after take off: 157 dead.
- March 11th 2019 some European countries decided to close their airspace to B737 MAX airplanes
- March 12th 2019, EASA 2019-0051-E directive allows Europe to close the airspace to all B737 MAX8 and B737 MAX9 flights
- March 14th 2019 FAA directive grounded all B737 MAX of USA airlines.
From March 14th all the B737 MAX8 and MAX9 are grounded.
Many airlines are reporting losses because of missing deliveries, once they planned to organize their activity around the new MAX8 and MAX9.
Few airlines deleted their MAX orders switching to Airbus A320neo family.
Azerbaijan Airlines cancelled its orderd of 10 B737 MAX.
Icelandair, one of European airlines starting to fly the MAX8, extended the grounding of its B737 MAX to September 2019.
346 dead in few months of activity are too many for a new airplane and this dramatic statistic imposed to Boeing to make everything possible to find a reason for the two crashes.
The first analysis have found a software problem, while the "human error" factor has been excluded because, from the black boxes, the pilots of the two airplanes made everything possible to try to regain altitude after take off.
In fact the problem of the two tragic flights, Lion Air and Ethiopian Airlines, has been a sudden loss of altitude soon after take off, leading to a crash without possibility to recover.
The news of yesterday is that some B737 MAX's may have faulty parts, especially on the wings.
A dramatic start for this beautiful family of airplanes, including 346 people who lost their lives.
What went wrong with the MAX?



https://worldairlinenews.com/2019/05...oeing-737-max/



https://worldairlinenews.com/2019/05...oeing-737-max/


https://worldairlinenews.com/2019/05...s-into-august/



https://worldairlinenews.com/2019/05...x-disclosures/



https://worldairlinenews.com/2019/05...er-737-models/



https://worldairlinenews.com/2019/05...ilot-training/



https://worldairlinenews.com/2019/05...oeing-737-max/



https://worldairlinenews.com/2019/06...-september-15/



https://worldairlinenews.com/2019/06...design-change/



https://worldairlinenews.com/2019/06...-faulty-parts/


Boeing CEO says the MAX should restart to fly by the end of the year.

https://worldairlinenews.com/2019/06...d-of-the-year/
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Old 06-04-2019, 03:51 PM   #2
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Re: B737 MAX: what is happening?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charter View Post
Ciao to all.
A short summary about the B737 MAX, the new jewel of Boeing:
- January 29th 2016 first flight
- 2017 entered in service with Southwest Airlines
- October 29th 2018 Lion Air B737 MAX8 PK-LQP, two months of life, crashed into Java sea soon after take off from Jakarta airport: 189 dead
- March 10th 2019 Ethiopian Airlines B737 MAX8 ET-AVJ, four months of life, crashed in Addis Abeba outskirt soon after take off: 157 dead.
- March 11th 2019 some European countries decided to close their airspace to B737 MAX airplanes
- March 12th 2019, EASA 2019-0051-E directive allows Europe to close the airspace to all B737 MAX8 and B737 MAX9 flights
- March 14th 2019 FAA directive grounded all B737 MAX of USA airlines.
From March 14th all the B737 MAX8 and MAX9 are grounded.
Many airlines are reporting losses because of missing deliveries, once they planned to organize their activity around the new MAX8 and MAX9.
Few airlines deleted their MAX orders switching to Airbus A320neo family.
Azerbaijan Airlines cancelled its orderd of 10 B737 MAX.
Icelandair, one of European airlines starting to fly the MAX8, extended the grounding of its B737 MAX to September 2019.
346 dead in few months of activity are too many for a new airplane and this dramatic statistic imposed to Boeing to make everything possible to find a reason for the two crashes.
The first analysis have found a software problem, while the "human error" factor has been excluded because, from the black boxes, the pilots of the two airplanes made everything possible to try to regain altitude after take off.
In fact the problem of the two tragic flights, Lion Air and Ethiopian Airlines, has been a sudden loss of altitude soon after take off, leading to a crash without possibility to recover.
The news of yesterday is that some B737 MAX's may have faulty parts, especially on the wings.
A dramatic start for this beautiful family of airplanes, including 346 people who lost their lives.
What went wrong with the MAX?



https://worldairlinenews.com/2019/05...oeing-737-max/



https://worldairlinenews.com/2019/05...oeing-737-max/


https://worldairlinenews.com/2019/05...s-into-august/



https://worldairlinenews.com/2019/05...x-disclosures/



https://worldairlinenews.com/2019/05...er-737-models/



https://worldairlinenews.com/2019/05...ilot-training/



https://worldairlinenews.com/2019/05...oeing-737-max/



https://worldairlinenews.com/2019/06...-september-15/



https://worldairlinenews.com/2019/06...design-change/



https://worldairlinenews.com/2019/06...-faulty-parts/


Boeing CEO says the MAX should restart to fly by the end of the year.

https://worldairlinenews.com/2019/06...d-of-the-year/

The problem with the MAX was the software Mcas (Maneuvering Characteristics Automation System), created to correct the MAX attitude to stall because of the different allocation of the engines.
On the rush among A320neo and B737 MAX to capture more customers possible, To improve fuel savings Boeing moved the engines of the MAX forward, making the trim even worse and correcting the tendency to stall with the adoption of the Mcas.
The two dramatic and tragic creshes were caused by the Mcas, with the B737 nosediving forced by the software.
Boeing was forced to admit possible risks due to defective parts of the wings of the B737NG and B737 MAX. The defective parts, 148 pieces that would not meet the requirements in terms of resistance and durability, could result in a "potential non-conformity". Boeing publicly admitted that a batch of wings produced by a supplier was improperly constructed. At least 21 B737NG and 20 B737 MAX have been identified as the aircrafts most likely to have adopted the defective parts in question. Boeing is cooperating with FAA to solve the many problems.
The interested parts, stated FAA, can be subject to premature failures or cracks because of the improper manufacturing process. Although a complete failure does not result in the loss of the aircraft, the risk is that a faulty part can lead to damage of the airplanes during the flight.
Boeing proposed to control 112 additional B737NG and 159 B737 MAX, also underlining the need of replacement parts activity where necessary.
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Old 06-05-2019, 09:14 PM   #3
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Re: B737 MAX: what is happening?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charter View Post
Ciao to all.
A short summary about the B737 MAX, the new jewel of Boeing:
- January 29th 2016 first flight
- 2017 entered in service with Southwest Airlines
- October 29th 2018 Lion Air B737 MAX8 PK-LQP, two months of life, crashed into Java sea soon after take off from Jakarta airport: 189 dead
- March 10th 2019 Ethiopian Airlines B737 MAX8 ET-AVJ, four months of life, crashed in Addis Abeba outskirt soon after take off: 157 dead.
- March 11th 2019 some European countries decided to close their airspace to B737 MAX airplanes
- March 12th 2019, EASA 2019-0051-E directive allows Europe to close the airspace to all B737 MAX8 and B737 MAX9 flights
- March 14th 2019 FAA directive grounded all B737 MAX of USA airlines.
From March 14th all the B737 MAX8 and MAX9 are grounded.
Many airlines are reporting losses because of missing deliveries, once they planned to organize their activity around the new MAX8 and MAX9.
Few airlines deleted their MAX orders switching to Airbus A320neo family.
Azerbaijan Airlines cancelled its orderd of 10 B737 MAX.
Icelandair, one of European airlines starting to fly the MAX8, extended the grounding of its B737 MAX to September 2019.
346 dead in few months of activity are too many for a new airplane and this dramatic statistic imposed to Boeing to make everything possible to find a reason for the two crashes.
The first analysis have found a software problem, while the "human error" factor has been excluded because, from the black boxes, the pilots of the two airplanes made everything possible to try to regain altitude after take off.
In fact the problem of the two tragic flights, Lion Air and Ethiopian Airlines, has been a sudden loss of altitude soon after take off, leading to a crash without possibility to recover.
The news of yesterday is that some B737 MAX's may have faulty parts, especially on the wings.
A dramatic start for this beautiful family of airplanes, including 346 people who lost their lives.
What went wrong with the MAX?



https://worldairlinenews.com/2019/05...oeing-737-max/



https://worldairlinenews.com/2019/05...oeing-737-max/


https://worldairlinenews.com/2019/05...s-into-august/



https://worldairlinenews.com/2019/05...x-disclosures/



https://worldairlinenews.com/2019/05...er-737-models/



https://worldairlinenews.com/2019/05...ilot-training/



https://worldairlinenews.com/2019/05...oeing-737-max/



https://worldairlinenews.com/2019/06...-september-15/



https://worldairlinenews.com/2019/06...design-change/



https://worldairlinenews.com/2019/06...-faulty-parts/


Boeing CEO says the MAX should restart to fly by the end of the year.

https://worldairlinenews.com/2019/06...d-of-the-year/
About deleting B737 MAX orders, LOT seems to go countercurrent: it is of the last days a statement that the airline doesn't want to cancel the order for the MAX but it is urgent to recover credibility of the model.
LOT CEO said "If somebody is ready to cancel the MAX order because of what happens I think it is more of an emotional decision than a rational decision”.
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Old 06-27-2019, 08:24 AM   #4
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Re: B737 MAX: what is happening?

New problems for the troubled B737 MAX.
CNN rumors have revealed new problems for the MAX and today FAA announced potential risk for the airplane due to new defects on the software which would force the airplane into a nose dive.
For this reason the MAX will remain grounded for more time.
In USA United Airlines will extend its B737 MAX's ground and storage until September 3rd, deleting 1900 flights.
The same have already been by Southwest and American Airlines.
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Last edited by Charter; 12-18-2019 at 05:11 AM.
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Old 12-18-2019, 04:58 AM   #5
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Re: B737 MAX: what is happening?

Boeing suspends B737 MAX production starting from January 2020.


https://worldairlinenews.com/2019/12...ng-in-january/


A real shame for Boeing and for civil aviation world.
More or less all the new airplanes had accidents, with and/or without passengers, but Boeing B737 MAX accidents caused about 350 dead...too many, considering also that among the two accidents and, before Ethiopian Airlines B737 MAX8 crash, the software problems have been already intuited (if not detected...). And this is a second shame.
Money vs people lives: unfortunately human history is full of this battle, but it is not acceptable especially in 2020!
Of course Boeing is losing money and credibility, even if much less then it was imagined (i imagine what would have happened to Airbus and to Europe if the same thing of B737 MAX would have occurred to the A321LR, for example...), and Airbus is selling well its beautiful A321LR and XLR.
But i continue to say R.I.P. to all the poor 346 victims of B737 MAX8 crashes.
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Last edited by Charter; 12-18-2019 at 05:11 AM.
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Old 12-22-2019, 01:06 PM   #6
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It is a pity Boeing stopped B737NG production, even if the last KLM B737NG has been delivered few days ago.
I don't think Boeing will resume B737 MAX production in few months because in this case they wouldn't have suspended it.
Many airlines bought the B737 MAX but today, after too many months of grounding the same airlines are far from MAX problems and how they are affecting Boeing.
Maybe Boeing should start to plan a B757neo/NG version, the right model to compete with A321LR/XLR.
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Old 12-23-2019, 03:39 PM   #7
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After the stock exchange disaster for Boeing, there is another bad news for the American manufacturer, another "victim"of B737 MAX disaster: Boeing CEO resigns and David Calhoun is the new President and CEO.
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Old 01-11-2020, 08:27 AM   #8
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Re: B737 MAX: what is happening?

When several e-mails are coming out and in general they say "the B737 MAX was designed by clowns and checked by monkeys" how and airline can continue to wait to fly with it???
With this airplane Boeing is losing all its credibility, especially because apart from some e-mails that can or cannot have a sense, it is clear that the B737 MAX has been designed and projected with an intolerable and injustifiable hurry.
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Old 01-11-2020, 08:41 AM   #9
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Re: B737 MAX: what is happening?

Ale, I have read contradicting articles, one stating that Boeing will stop manufacture of Boeing 737-Max aircrafts while others suggesting that they will start producing Max again...why don't they give us a clear picture and come out and publicly say that they will or will not be produced! It is rather confusing, my friend!
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Old 01-11-2020, 09:43 AM   #10
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Re: B737 MAX: what is happening?

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Originally Posted by solicitor82 View Post
Ale, I have read contradicting articles, one stating that Boeing will stop manufacture of Boeing 737-Max aircrafts while others suggesting that they will start producing Max again...why don't they give us a clear picture and come out and publicly say that they will or will not be produced! It is rather confusing, my friend!
You're right Homzie, but i imagine at Boeing they really don't know what do to! The situation is so dramatic (for the many dead and for the many flaws of this airplane) that they are terrified about the day of the new take off.
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Old 01-12-2020, 10:36 PM   #11
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Re: B737 MAX: what is happening?

I tend to desregard everything being written/talked about with regard to the MAX. It might have to to with the fact that I have a very good friend who works at Boeing (not at the 737 factory though) but because we live in a world where mass hysteria is the baseline for everything.

The MAX will fly again...there is just too much invested in it on too many levels to get into here. As for the e-mails, really...who hasn't complained about their employer operations or employee strategies before? Everyone does it...I did it just last week (and it wasn't the first time either)! Everyone complains about the "boss", everyone thinks they can do a better job...so it's all meaningless to me. I don't put much stock in it.

Everywhere I look the news is portrayed as "it's never been this bad and will only get worse". I tire of it so easily. An E-coli outbreak was supposed to be the end of Jack in the Box...it's still here! Poorly assembled tires/tire treads was supposed to be the end of Ford and Firestone...they're still here. Valdez was supposed to be the end of Exxon...it's still here. Two insufferably stupid teenagers who hopped a fence, taunted a tiger and then were mauled/killed by it was supposed to be the end of the San Francisco Zoo...it's still with us.

How many times has it been discovered that the result of a crash was due to an airline's poor record on safety and maintenance? How many times have we heard self righteous people say they will never fly that airline or aircraft type again? It's nonsense! Pick your example...I had to fly on two MD-80s to the east coast during the crisis of 2000 when faulty jackscrew maintenance was front and center in the headlines. Was that fiasco the end of Alaska Airlines or the mass exodus of the aircraft type by any airline that flew it? No...but at the time it was predicted that the events of Alaska flight 261 would be the end of both. All of the so called "experts" were wrong!

My point here is that everytime there is downturn in the fortune of a particular public entity we are told it's over for them...and it rarely ever is. I see it as a natural process that something wasn't right within the company and "nature" (or whatever you choose to call it) has a way of exposing it. Clearly there are efforts to correct those problems at Boeing. The same non experts that pepper spray us with their uninformed opinions on trash news sites or their YouTube channels will not remember these events six months from now...an all new tragedy will focus their efforts on creating all new hysterias for the coming of the end of...whatever!
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Old 01-20-2020, 04:54 AM   #12
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Re: B737 MAX: what is happening?

Quote:
Originally Posted by United930 View Post
I tend to desregard everything being written/talked about with regard to the MAX. It might have to to with the fact that I have a very good friend who works at Boeing (not at the 737 factory though) but because we live in a world where mass hysteria is the baseline for everything.

The MAX will fly again...there is just too much invested in it on too many levels to get into here. As for the e-mails, really...who hasn't complained about their employer operations or employee strategies before? Everyone does it...I did it just last week (and it wasn't the first time either)! Everyone complains about the "boss", everyone thinks they can do a better job...so it's all meaningless to me. I don't put much stock in it.

Everywhere I look the news is portrayed as "it's never been this bad and will only get worse". I tire of it so easily. An E-coli outbreak was supposed to be the end of Jack in the Box...it's still here! Poorly assembled tires/tire treads was supposed to be the end of Ford and Firestone...they're still here. Valdez was supposed to be the end of Exxon...it's still here. Two insufferably stupid teenagers who hopped a fence, taunted a tiger and then were mauled/killed by it was supposed to be the end of the San Francisco Zoo...it's still with us.

How many times has it been discovered that the result of a crash was due to an airline's poor record on safety and maintenance? How many times have we heard self righteous people say they will never fly that airline or aircraft type again? It's nonsense! Pick your example...I had to fly on two MD-80s to the east coast during the crisis of 2000 when faulty jackscrew maintenance was front and center in the headlines. Was that fiasco the end of Alaska Airlines or the mass exodus of the aircraft type by any airline that flew it? No...but at the time it was predicted that the events of Alaska flight 261 would be the end of both. All of the so called "experts" were wrong!

My point here is that everytime there is downturn in the fortune of a particular public entity we are told it's over for them...and it rarely ever is. I see it as a natural process that something wasn't right within the company and "nature" (or whatever you choose to call it) has a way of exposing it. Clearly there are efforts to correct those problems at Boeing. The same non experts that pepper spray us with their uninformed opinions on trash news sites or their YouTube channels will not remember these events six months from now...an all new tragedy will focus their efforts on creating all new hysterias for the coming of the end of...whatever!
Your point of view is a different way to see the problem and it is interesting and, partially, correct.
But the focus problem of the MAX are, in my opinion, the too many dead for a new airplane: according to the fact that even 1 dead is a tragedy, 346 dead after an year of activity is a nonsense! Everyone, but not Boeing, would have stopped the MAX flights after the first Lion Air accident (189 dead); everyone, but no Boeing, would have had doubts after the first Lion Air accident, where the new airplane was doing something not ordered by the pilots and not controlled by the pilots.
These are the real problems in my opinion.
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Old 01-20-2020, 08:29 AM   #13
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Re: B737 MAX: what is happening?

I don't think 1 accident, which was still under investigation, would be enough to ground the aircraft. The Ethiopian crash had a very similar situation, so that's why the grounding was needed, in my opinion.

Would be nonsense to ground every plane after the first accident!

The first Boeing 767 crash was the Lauda Air back in Bangkok, caused by a sudden reverse thrust deployment inflight. Systems were modified and no grounding was needed. The Airbus A320 also had crashes due to "man x machine" but didn't need to be grounded.

The MAX however, had two similar crashes in a short period of time. This really means something's wrong with the airplane.
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Old 01-21-2020, 04:31 PM   #14
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Re: B737 MAX: what is happening?

Boeing statement:
"B737 MAX ungrounding planned for mid 2020".


Boeing statement on 737 MAX return to service
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Old 01-22-2020, 08:34 PM   #15
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Re: B737 MAX: what is happening?

First: I concur with Leo...the grounding of an aircraft type after a crash does not happen. Maintenance initiatives and warnings are given, but not immediate and universal groundings.

Second: I had written a vast response, complete with historical references and analysis, to explain why I am more than "partially correct". It was worthy of publication. I then realized that what I was responding to an emotional response. Trying to rationally debate with emotion is messy and ultimately useless.

Therefore, I shall just sit back and watch the events of this story play out exactly as I know they will...

I will finish by saying that there is nothing physically wrong with the MAX...it boils down to a computer software problem which is another ever encreasing issue. Go look up Qantas 72? Problems like these are not new...
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