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Old 12-01-2013, 11:34 AM   #61
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Re: 3D Printing

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Originally Posted by hikouki View Post
For me at the moment, I want more quality GSEs than a new plane type (although this would be good too). If adjustable jetways can be done in 1:400, why not in 1:500? Also, if cheap-o F-Toys can make adjustable stair trucks, then perhaps it can be done with slightly better quality? I bet all of these would sell like hotcakes!
Hi, what GSE vehicles would you like?
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Old 12-01-2013, 11:43 AM   #62
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Re: 3D Printing

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Originally Posted by 3DPrinting View Post
Hi, what GSE vehicles would you like?
I would say any GSE... or for example, it would be great if you could do the A380 jetway!
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Old 12-01-2013, 11:46 AM   #63
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Re: 3D Printing

I think it would be the easiest way to have a white model for further customising:
It would be disadvantegous to apply black decals (e.g. for windows) on a black mould... ;-)

Basing my judgement on my clumsy skills I would say that it is easier to apply paint at some tiny spots like prop blades or gears instead of painting the entire fuselage. (As this would be likely to require masking and some airbrush equipment.)

A kind of semi-assembled model kit would be OK (at least from my point of view): Less costly, but not requiring too much skills or equipment from the potential buyer...
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Old 12-01-2013, 12:15 PM   #64
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Re: 3D Printing

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Originally Posted by geosnail View Post
I would say any GSE... or for example, it would be great if you could do the A380 jetway!
The A380 jetway would be no problem. Would you be able to direct me to a site that would have the dimensions so we can model it accurately?
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Old 12-01-2013, 12:17 PM   #65
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Re: 3D Printing

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Originally Posted by HAJ-09L View Post
I think it would be the easiest way to have a white model for further customising:
It would be disadvantegous to apply black decals (e.g. for windows) on a black mould... ;-)

Basing my judgement on my clumsy skills I would say that it is easier to apply paint at some tiny spots like prop blades or gears instead of painting the entire fuselage. (As this would be likely to require masking and some airbrush equipment.)

A kind of semi-assembled model kit would be OK (at least from my point of view): Less costly, but not requiring too much skills or equipment from the potential buyer...
Thanks, will bare this in mind.
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Old 12-01-2013, 03:10 PM   #66
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Re: 3D Printing

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Originally Posted by 3DPrinting View Post
Thanks, will bare this in mind.
I must say, You're really good with listening to what we want as collectors; Very nice!! Keep it up, and I wish you all the best with the Saab 2000; Looking forward to the sample!
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Old 12-02-2013, 01:43 AM   #67
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Re: 3D Printing

AIRCRAFT MODEL:
I guess having a white model with cockpit and windows incl. doors, will be the best solution.
If you will also manufacture the set of decals to be applied by buyer, this should make us happy.
Here on forum are many person who can help by decal design. I guess a feedback from them will come soon.

GSE ACCESSORIES:
I guess to make particular A380 jetways doesn't have a sence. If they will be made in shape of Heathrow or Frankfurt or any other airport, than people wouldn't use them on their fantasy airports.
Or you want to do few different designs, to be sold as sets for designated aiports.

In my opinion, it's much better to start with vehicles. Those from Herpa are looking very simple.
We need: busses, loading transporters, catering vehicles, luggage carts and engines, stairs with different high (adjustable), privat cars (Americans - Buick, Chevy, Ford, Chrysler; European - BMW, Marsedes, Ford, Peugeot, Citroen, Fiat, Seat, Opel...; Japanese - Toyota, Nissan...), small trucks, forlifts, etc., to name only few of them. You have so huge choice...
With different vehicles you have a great possibilities to "catch" us - every one airport diorama will need hundreds of them.
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Old 12-02-2013, 03:55 AM   #68
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Re: 3D Printing

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Originally Posted by tomek-czarnyszewicz View Post
AIRCRAFT MODEL:
I guess having a white model with cockpit and windows incl. doors, will be the best solution.
If you will also manufacture the set of decals to be applied by buyer, this should make us happy.
Here on forum are many person who can help by decal design. I guess a feedback from them will come soon.

GSE ACCESSORIES:
I guess to make particular A380 jetways doesn't have a sence. If they will be made in shape of Heathrow or Frankfurt or any other airport, than people wouldn't use them on their fantasy airports.
Or you want to do few different designs, to be sold as sets for designated aiports.

In my opinion, it's much better to start with vehicles. Those from Herpa are looking very simple.
We need: busses, loading transporters, catering vehicles, luggage carts and engines, stairs with different high (adjustable), privat cars (Americans - Buick, Chevy, Ford, Chrysler; European - BMW, Marsedes, Ford, Peugeot, Citroen, Fiat, Seat, Opel...; Japanese - Toyota, Nissan...), small trucks, forlifts, etc., to name only few of them. You have so huge choice...
With different vehicles you have a great possibilities to "catch" us - every one airport diorama will need hundreds of them.
Modelling the GSE equipment will be no problem, the key for us is choosing the best printing material. Due to their tiny size I think these will not be able to come with multiple colours or liveries (unless applied by yourselves). We have two options here, a white smooth material (can achieve details as small as 0.2mm but the thinnest projection like the blades on a forklift need to be 1mm thick) or a translucent material that can achieve details as small as 0.1mm and projections as thin as 0.8mm although it might need a primer added to show all the lovely detail). It think the first option would be the best. Please note that 3D Printed materials (such as these two) are not as strong as regular plastic or diecast so you need to be careful with them at this size.
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Old 12-02-2013, 05:18 AM   #69
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Re: 3D Printing

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Originally Posted by 3DPrinting View Post
We are building various levels of detail to suit different printing machines so this first one is a rough outline to get the massing of the plane correct. Once this is complete we then zoom in on the detail. With the Herpa models, from what I can see, all the details on the fuselage such as windows etc are painted on not embossed or engraved so for the full colour version we will possibly do the same or add that extra level of detail and emboss or engrave. We are working it out as we go along but thanks for you comments.
Thank you for providing these early impressions of what is possible. I find them extremely enlightening.

What I remember seeing here before as exemple of a 3D-printed airplane showed a grainyness of the surface that was unsatisfactory at this scale. In these new images by you we see something quite different: You are able to produce a perfectly smooth surface which gets me exited for the overall end result. So let me give you some comments in detail:
  • You prove to be able to produce a minimal material thickness that I consider quite alright for the wings (and the fuselage as well, obviously).
  • It is my impression that minimal thickness will be a borderline case for the horizontal and vertical stabilizer (and winglets as applicable) - not perfect, but acceptable.
  • Regarding the landing gear and the propellers, I am not sure if the production method of 3D-printing is currently the best and if a separate production (like for the current zink-based scale models) and (maybe) a sale in parts to be assembled might not be a preferred solution.
  • What I like is that you are able to engrave more finely than is possible in metal, resulting in a superiour wing surface in comparison to the current offer. You should, however, reduce the depth of the lines, if possible.
  • If a reduced depth is possible, I consider engraved lines to be at least on par compared to printing on the fuselage (although often the doors are outlined in colour in the original which then needs to be copied on the model for faithfulness).
  • The issue of the cockpit window frames is obvious but also easily solvable by fine-tuning the digital model.
  • I am very happy about your ability (and willingness) to include crown center antennas on the fuselage as I think they (together with the navigation lights) are an important, but generally neglected part of the appearance of a modern airliner.
  • As the loft (or spline) lines along the fuselage are not an artefact of the printing process but of your digital model, I am sure that issue can be addressed sucessfully.
  • I am not accustomed to do miniature decal work, therefore a finished model would be my preference. In case tampo printing is too expensive, there may be people here that are willing to "extend your production line" by applying decals to your blanks and you can sell through a common process both cheaper blanks or more expensive finished models. Like that, different interest groups would be reached.
One thing that has been mentioned already is the question of licencing. What may work for artists as well as hidden Chinese manufacturers may not work for you, as you create your serious business in the western world. So you may have to consider looking for agreements with the airframers (and maybe airlines). That may on the other hand allow you access to better digital models.

You can gauge from the length of my post how I am very excited about your willingness to seriously get involved in our hobby. I wish you a lot of success.

Best regards
Christoph
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Old 12-02-2013, 09:56 AM   #70
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Re: 3D Printing

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Originally Posted by 3DPrinting View Post
Modelling the GSE equipment will be no problem, the key for us is choosing the best printing material. Due to their tiny size I think these will not be able to come with multiple colours or liveries (unless applied by yourselves).

You can make the GSE in yellow and white color... I don't mind. It's better than the multicolor pack of Herpa
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Old 12-02-2013, 10:01 AM   #71
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Re: 3D Printing

If you bring out the SAAB and then the ATP freighter, then the AN12 i will be very happy customer

The GSE would be interesting i would be more than happy to see what you come up with.
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Old 12-02-2013, 10:28 AM   #72
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Re: 3D Printing

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomek-czarnyszewicz View Post
AIRCRAFT MODEL:
I guess having a white model with cockpit and windows incl. doors, will be the best solution.
Actually, having windows and door lines printed into the model might cause problems with the decals. Air bubbles will be under the decals wherever there is a window. I understand if people want details, but i think the best for such a small model would be a bare design. No windows, no door lines, no panel lines. Just the basic shape of the plane to make painting it simpler.

Quote:
Originally Posted by c5maier View Post
  • I am not accustomed to do miniature decal work, therefore a finished model would be my preference. In case tampo printing is too expensive, there may be people here that are willing to "extend your production line" by applying decals to your blanks and you can sell through a common process both cheaper blanks or more expensive finished models. Like that, different interest groups would be reached.
Same here. I'd prefer to buy a finished model and not have to add decals myself. And to be honest, i think a lot of us feel the same way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike21 View Post
If you bring out the SAAB and then the ATP freighter, then the AN12 i will be very happy customer
Why not just a generic ATP? They look the same, don't they?
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Old 12-02-2013, 11:12 AM   #73
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Re: 3D Printing

Sorry Oskar that's what i meant but it would Apeal more to me being a freighter.
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Old 12-02-2013, 11:19 AM   #74
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Re: 3D Printing

Hi Everyone,
To give you all an update we are building 3 models of the Saab 2000 at the moment.
Super High Detail, High Detail & Full Colour. Each model needs to be made differently as they are all different materials, are printed differently and need different sizes for parts. Where we currently stand is that adding colour (other than the chunky full colour printed model) will have to be done via Decal or Tampo printing. I have no experience of Tampo printing 3D Printed materials or how much this costs or who can do it so I will develop this side of things in tandem with the regular 3D Printing route way so bear with me on this one. The issue of Licenses has been raised and we are asking companies about this as we proceed.
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Old 12-02-2013, 11:23 AM   #75
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Re: 3D Printing

P.s
In order to offer a white 3D Printed model we need to model for the High Detail material. If this is not 'white' enough we then need to look at asking one of my contacts to make a small mould of the plane and pour in a white resin. This route would work if 50 models are wanted so as to justify the mould making cost but for small runs of 10 or so then 3D Printing alone would likely be the only option. I am trying to get a feel for the order numbers at the moment so assuming for now we can only offer a all white 3D Printed Saab 2000 at 1/500, how many would people want (assuming we print one first of course and you are happy with the model).
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