Alitalia finally out of the abyss ... or maybe not. ITA Airways has born. - Page 2

RealGliderPilot · 09-05-2013, 04:52 PM

Surely the injections of cash from the Italian government are contrary to European regulations?

Charter · 09-06-2013, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RealGliderPilot

Surely the injections of cash from the Italian government are contrary to European regulations?

There will not be an help from the Italian Government (taxes of Italian citizens) because it is against the European regulations and because it is not more time to help this airline from bankruptcy. If Air France/KLM wants to increase its share in the airline arriving to 51% then will decide about it.
But i don't think that Air France/KLM have interest to "buy" Alitalia, as i don't think that Etihad will reach an agreement with the airline for the slots of FCO Airport towards the southern part of Europe.

Charter · 09-24-2013, 01:31 PM

Sad news for Alitalia.
You all remember that five years ago Air France/KLM group proposed to buy Alitalia/CAI spending 2 billion euro and taking charge of the debts of the airline. Instead, a group of ragged Italians bought the good part of the company by paying off all the debts to us citizens, improving our taxes...
Today Air France/KLM told to the shareholders that wants to arrive to the 50% of the shares, then assuming the control and restructure (resizing) the airline. Alitalia needs of 300 million euro to survive, Air France has set its own conditions.
Etihad Airways was interested in buying Alitalia shares, but today the airline told that its priority is Jet Airways.

Charter · 10-10-2013, 01:50 AM

Within 48 hours Alitalia must find 500 million euro or the airline will fail. The Italian government is trying to save the airline...

PDXspotter · 10-10-2013, 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charter

Within 48 hours Alitalia must find 500 million euro or the airline will fail. The Italian government is trying to save the airline...

Charter, if the Italian Gov't can't save AZ (With or without help for the EU) will AF/KL pick it up including debts or will face the same fate as Pan Am, Swissair,
Sabena, and Olympic?

Charter · 10-10-2013, 02:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PDXspotter

Charter, if the Italian Gov't can't save AZ (With or without help for the EU) will AF/KL pick it up including debts or will face the same fate as Pan Am, Swissair,
Sabena, and Olympic?

Now Air France wants the complete ownership of Alitalia, reduce the fleet and the routes, leave the debts to the Italian citizens, fire 2000/3000 employees.

El_Capitan · 10-10-2013, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charter

Now Air France wants the complete ownership of Alitalia, reduce the fleet and the routes, leave the debts to the Italian citizens, fire 2000/3000 employees.

Sounds like a reasonable offer, Beggars can't be choosers.

bskc8th · 10-10-2013, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charter

Within 48 hours Alitalia must find 500 million euro or the airline will fail. The Italian government is trying to save the airline...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charter

Now Air France wants the complete ownership of Alitalia, reduce the fleet and the routes, leave the debts to the Italian citizens, fire 2000/3000 employees.

This is terrible news! I know a lot of people believe failing airlines should be left to collapse so fresh new ones can grow but in the case of AZ it's awful news

Why would Air France want to take on Alitalia? It has enough problems of its own, surely - even KLM are having second thoughts about their 'arrangement' with the French national carrier. Sad days when Sabena and Swissair went under, let's hope AZ can be saved with an agreement that works for everyone - especially the Italian people.

Charter · 10-10-2013, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by El_Capitan

Sounds like a reasonable offer, Beggars can't be choosers.

Completely agree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bskc8th

This is terrible news! I know a lot of people believe failing airlines should be left to collapse so fresh new ones can grow but in the case of AZ it's awful news

Why would Air France want to take on Alitalia? It has enough problems of its own, surely - even KLM are having second thoughts about their 'arrangement' with the French national carrier. Sad days when Sabena and Swissair went under, let's hope AZ can be saved with an agreement that works for everyone - especially the Italian people.

There is a last minute news: Alitalia must find 300 million euro + 200 million of euro of loan (banks) by Saturday orthe aircrafts will be grounded and ENAC ( Civil Aviation Authority) will withdraw the certificate of operation of the airline.
I think that Air France has all the interests to wait the bankruptcy and then buy the corpse...
Now seems that the Italian Post could buy the airline. Italian Post already have an airline, Mistral Air, with 7 airplanes.

Charter · 10-10-2013, 01:46 PM

To El Capitan: my friend, "beggars" is not the right word, more bandits, because we Italian citizens, with our taxes, paid 4 billion euro for this"living dead"! Very sad.
I don't know if you know more about Alitalia history: State aids, previous CEO's who have contributed to the disaster with a golden handshake of 60 million euro (and now under investigation for fraud, bankruptcy, conspiracy...), routes operated with MD-80's with a payload of 2-3 passengers (more 2 pilots and 3 cabin crew) , Rome - Albenga (Liguria), because a Minister of the Italian Government was living there...
But i'm living in Italy and maybe you all can't understand what happens in this country. So i accept all your sarcasm and contempt because they are much deserved.

lollomz · 10-11-2013, 02:26 AM

What I hope is we will not pay (AGAIN) for this airline.... I'm really tired to pay with my money to save Alitalia!!!!!

Lollo

Charter · 10-12-2013, 09:28 AM

Once again seems that Alitalia was saved:
75 million euro from Mistral Air (Italian Post)
75 million euro from Air France
50 million euro from private investors
200 million euro from the banks.
I imagine that the 75 million euro of Italian Post are public money so it would be a public aid...

Charter · 10-15-2013, 01:54 AM

Yesterday British Airways asked EU to stop the "State aid" for Alitalia; Air France, Alitalia majority shareholder (25%), said to be not sure to want recapitalize the airline with 75 million euro...
My question is: if the majority shareholder doesn't want to help "its" airline, and Italian government is trying to save Alitalia with State aid, why not let it fail?
For me Alitalia must fail because is no longer administrable and because was administered by thieves and clowns.

AVIator85 · 10-15-2013, 03:26 AM

It would be realy sad to see AZ go, but maybe the next airline of italy would be more sustainable and without all the burdens of the past. And after my last experiences with AZ I cant recommend it anymore.

Charter · 10-15-2013, 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVIator85

It would be realy sad to see AZ go, but maybe the next airline of italy would be more sustainable and without all the burdens of the past. And after my last experiences with AZ I cant recommend it anymore.

I must say that the quality has improved respect 5 years ago while the financial situation has worsened. The real money are made with the long-haul routes, and Alitalia has very few long-haul flights. In 2008 Air France wanted to create three main hubs: Paris (Air France), Amsterdam (KLM) and Rome (Alitalia). Air France/KLM group suggested Alitalia to improve long-haul flights, while the new management did the opposite (European routes). Now things are changed: Air France doesn't want a stronger Alitalia, but a European/regional airline, and this is the main condition to put the 75 million euro. For this reason Italian government is helping Alitalia with "public money" (Italian Post).